Steping outside the shooting area?

[carlosa]

Hey flex thanks for your input..

The guys I shoot with are mostly Ipsc shooters from the philipines, one of the guys that brought this point up said that their understanding of the rule was from Ipsc and they were not sure if it applied to uspsa or not..

This is the second time i heard this in less than a month..

So I figure I ask folks who are more savvy about the rule book.

Cheers,

Los

[carlosa]

By the way there's a matt Burkett isident at an area2 match from a few years ago that alway comes up..

Not sure what the drama was about or what the ruling was..

I wonder If any one here can share details..

[Flexmoney]

Skydiver,

That is an IPSC classifier?

There is absolutely no way that that a similar stage (multiple shooting areas) would make it through approval at a Level III IPSC match. The reason given...it violates the freestyle aspect (no being allowed to shoot targets you can see while you are outside of the shooting area. Even if you had vision barriers that forced the shooter into each shooting area... Even if you had multiple positions required within each shooting area... Even if you could shoot extra targets from other shooting areas (meaning you weren't locked into only shooting T13 from Area C, for instance. You could see it from Area B and shoot it from that area if you chose to do so.)

The "shoot them as visible" mantra has been carried to the extreme. So much so that you can't add the line "from within the shooting area." Which, to me, begs the question...why have a written procedure at all?

[Skydiver]

Skydiver,

That is an IPSC classifier?

Unless this page is severely stale: http://www.ipsc.org/icsStages.htm , it's an IPSC classifier. See CLC-63.

I ran across it last year when I considering running a special IPSC classifier match for people who wanted to go cross the border and play in the Canadian IPSC Nationals being hosted by our ever friendly neighbors. Work got really busy, so I didn't pursue the matter.

[racerba]

...why have a written procedure at all?

I agree. But I also can see why - IPSC shooters are most likely not native English speaking people, therefore, the less that they need to interpret, the better.

[XRe]

By the way there's a matt Burkett isident at an area2 match from a few years ago that alway comes up..

Not sure what the drama was about or what the ruling was..

I wonder If any one here can share details..

Footage:

Matt was shooting the whole match on Thursday with the ROs, as he'd done for a number of years (it makes filming the match a lot cheaper and easier if you can get it done in one day...). Matt and several other shooters determined that they could shoot a particular stage by exiting from the first position, and coming back in the tunnel on the right side. The stage starts at the 4:40 mark in the vid. He shoots it twice - the stage wasn't reset the first time. For whatever reason, the RM decided that that little maneuver would be disallowed (note: this was pre-2008, and there was no provision for Forbidden Action, so I have no clue what rule the RM thought he was imposing). Matt was called back by the match staff to shoot the stage yet again on the Sunday of the match - IIRC what he told me, he was called either late on Saturday, or early Sunday morning and told he'd have to come back and reshoot or he'd zero the stage. He went back out, reshot the stage straight up and won it, thus winning the match by a 2 point margin (before the reshoot, but keeping his previous score in the match, Joe Bridgman was winning the match).

The hubbub came from some people claiming that Matt had been given special treatment by the match staff - I even heard someone say that he'd been given as many reshoots as he wanted until he was satisfied with the results of the stage This is how stupid, baseless rumors get started, obviously.

Thus began the so-called "Burkett Rule" - no GMs could shoot through the match on Thursday. That rule has apparently been rescinded as of this year.

[Flexmoney]

...why have a written procedure at all?

I agree. But I also can see why - IPSC shooters are most likely not native English speaking people, therefore, the less that they need to interpret, the better.

Least Common denominator thinking aside...

In my limited experience, international shooters are smart enough to figure out "...from within the shooting area".

Further, a Match Director is going to know who his/her customers are for any given match. IF there might be an issue with the official language of IPSC, then the MD can address that (by simplifying the stage design, if need be).

[uzi]

That is an IPSC classifier? There is absolutely no way that that a similar stage (multiple shooting areas) would make it through approval at a Level III IPSC match.

hello. in hong kong mr. pinto told us it's ok becoz rule 1.1.5.1. is classifier so it can say where to shoot from.

[Flexmoney]

That is an IPSC classifier? There is absolutely no way that that a similar stage (multiple shooting areas) would make it through approval at a Level III IPSC match.

hello. in hong kong mr. pinto told us it's ok becoz rule 1.1.5.1. is classifier so it can say where to shoot from.

Right.

My astonishment comes from the fact that the prevailing mindset (of those that might approve such a classifier) is dead set against the very idea.

[carlosa]

By the way there's a matt Burkett isident at an area2 match from a few years ago that alway comes up..

Not sure what the drama was about or what the ruling was..

I wonder If any one here can share details..

Footage:

Matt was shooting the whole match on Thursday with the ROs, as he'd done for a number of years (it makes filming the match a lot cheaper and easier if you can get it done in one day...). Matt and several other shooters determined that they could shoot a particular stage by exiting from the first position, and coming back in the tunnel on the right side. The stage starts at the 4:40 mark in the vid. He shoots it twice - the stage wasn't reset the first time. For whatever reason, the RM decided that that little maneuver would be disallowed (note: this was pre-2008, and there was no provision for Forbidden Action, so I have no clue what rule the RM thought he was imposing). Matt was called back by the match staff to shoot the stage yet again on the Sunday of the match - IIRC what he told me, he was called either late on Saturday, or early Sunday morning and told he'd have to come back and reshoot or he'd zero the stage. He went back out, reshot the stage straight up and won it, thus winning the match by a 2 point margin (before the reshoot, but keeping his previous score in the match, Joe Bridgman was winning the match).

The hubbub came from some people claiming that Matt had been given special treatment by the match staff - I even heard someone say that he'd been given as many reshoots as he wanted until he was satisfied with the results of the stage This is how stupid, baseless rumors get started, obviously.

Thus began the so-called "Burkett Rule" - no GMs could shoot through the match on Thursday. That rule has apparently been rescinded as of this year.

Hey thanks!

This is great info to have!

The guys at the range were telling me the Burkett rule was that we couldn't live the shooting area douring the course of fire..

And that it had been amended because of the controversy of that stage.

It's good to know that the Burkett rule has nothing to do with that.

And that the original fuzz was about reshoots.

Thanks for the background on that