variable or regular recoils spring

[rweeks]

Could some one please shed some light on this very contravertial issue. Which one is better.A veriable spring or a conventional spring for a open gun.And who sells a multi pack of springs for test.

[Duane Thomas]

The variable power recoil springs were specifically designed by Wolff for Open guns, to allow the gun to unlock more easily but still have enough energy stored to reliably strip rounds out of a full mag. My vote: variable power all the way.

[Duane Thomas]

Here's what Wolff has to say on the topic:

1. What is the difference between conventional and variable recoil springs?

The difference is both physical and operational. With a conventional spring, all the coils are spaced equally apart, except for the closed ends. In a variable recoil spring the space varies between coils with less space between coils at one end and more space between coils at the other end.

The way the two springs store energy is also different. For example if a conventional recoil spring is compressed 1/2", it might store 1 pound of energy. For every additional 1/2" this spring is compressed it would then store 1 additional pound of energy. When a variable recoil spring is compressed 1/2", it might store 1/4 pound of energy. The next half inch of compression might store 1/2 pound, the next half inch might store 3/4 pound and so on. In other words, a conventional spring stores energy on a straight line and a variable spring stores energy on a curve. If both springs are rated at 16 pounds, they will both store 16 pounds when compressed to the same working length, but the way they get to 16 pounds is different.

2. Should I use a conventional or variable spring when both are available?

The choice is often very subjective. Conventional recoil springs are particularly beneficial when shooting heavier loads where keeping the slide closed as long as possible is desired. Variable recoil springs reduce the battery load values with increasingly greater recoil load values. This results in easier unlocking, improved recoil energy storage, dampening, feeding, breaching and lockup. Variable recoil springs are particularly beneficial with compensated pistols and when using light target loads where less recoil energy is available. The "correct type" of recoil spring is best determined through experimentation and your own personal preference.

[rweeks]

Duane: I am currently using a cut 7lb spring in my steel gun but would like a little bit quicker lock up time than this would a variable spring take care of this at the same weight

[Duane Thomas]

Wolff offers what they call "calibration paks" (their spelling, not mine) with an assortment of spring weights in both conventional and variable power versions. Here's a link:

http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/COLT/1911%20GOV'T%20PISTOL/cID1/mID1/dID1#799

[Duane Thomas]

Duane: I am currently using a cut 7lb spring in my steel gun but would like a little bit quicker lock up time than this would a variable spring take care of this at the same weight

Theoretically it should. Actually since the variable power springs allow the gun to begin unlocking more easily, you might actually be able to get the effect you want by running a variable spring at a heavier weight.

[Duane Thomas]

This seems like what you'd be looking for:

Stock No. 13114 - Ultra Light Reduced Power Pak - Ultra Light Variable

This pak contains 1 each of 5, 6, 7, 8, & 9 Lb. reduced power variable recoil springs and 3 extra power firing pin springs.

[ParaGunner]

Great info

[Duane Thomas]

Aw shucks, 'tweren't nuthin', folks. <stubs toe of sneaker into dirt>

[rweeks]

Aw shucks, 'tweren't nuthin', folks. <stubs toe of sneaker into dirt>

Duane thanks for the information and plan on trying this out.I only have 3 weeks till Steel challenge states here in Piru and plan on trying to gain 20-30 seconds off my time by scheer determination and will with a little help from you and your advice.

Thanks

[Duane Thomas]

It's funny you should ask this question now. Just a few days ago I was out with Scott Pries, one of our local, good, young GMs, he'd been having trouble with his cutdown 9-pound recoil spring not having enough oomph to strip rounds out of the mag on his Limited .40. I hooked him up with a Wolff 10-pound variable which not only cycled perfectly, it also fed perfectly. Hopefully your experience will mirror his. If you get the Wolff Ultra-Light variable calibration pak, in your shoes I'd be looking reealllll hard at that 9-pound spring.

[wide45]

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2249

[G-ManBart]

Sperman did some testing on a high end spring tester (think the kind they use to calibrate race car springs), and his results didn't show much in the way of a progressive increase in resistance. I think he only did a few conventional springs to compare, but the plots were pretty similar.

I've got conventional Springco springs in my Open guns...work perfectly and last a long time. R,

Edited November 20, 2010 by G-ManBart

[austin rick]

Wolfe always includes an extra firing pin spring with each recoil spring. Does this mean you should replace the firing pin spring every time you replace the recoil spring? I have to believe all the firing pin springs have the same rate?

[Joe4d]

I think it is a liability issue, In the non comp world the trend is to heavier than stock recoil springs , These springs are being marketed as reducing recoil and increasing gun life. Some where in the sands of time a super heavy recoil spring combined with a light wore out firing pin spring caused a slam fire, So wolff includes a XP firing pin spring in every pack, sorta an "I told you so" move.

I'm in agreement with G-man and D.R. I believe variable springs are simply smoke and mirrors.

[austin rick]

Thanks Joe4d. That makes good sense. Being new to the sport and spending $2000 on a pistol, I am trying to keep from screwing it up.

Rick

[Duane Thomas]

I'm in agreement with G-man and D.R. I believe variable springs are simply smoke and mirrors.

Have you ever taken a Wolff conventional recoil spring and fired it against a variable power recoil spring of the same weight, with the same ammo, back-to-back? To me the difference in felt recoil and muzzle flip is both real and significant.

[G-ManBart]

I'm in agreement with G-man and D.R. I believe variable springs are simply smoke and mirrors.

Have you ever taken a Wolff conventional recoil spring and fired it against a variable power recoil spring of the same weight, with the same ammo, back-to-back? To me the difference in felt recoil and muzzle flip is both real and significant.

I have in 1911s, but that's all. What platforms did you compare? Not to be a wise guy....I'm honestly interested, but did you test both springs before using them them to see how close they were to one another, and then after using them to make sure neither one had changed more significantly than the other (relatively speaking)? R,

[hovbuild]

One day I was curious about this..My buddy is a video nut and has a high speed camera... I tested two things that day. The variable spring compared to a standard and different loads on bowling pins..The later I will keep a secret.

I was using a Bear PII with a FBFPS and a solid tungsten steel spring rod. I shoot heavy loads with this gun. The difference was shown with the videos was quite a bit. My gun would recoil 2"+ higher with a standard 18 lb spring than with the 18.5 variable. The gun would also be less off the line wind age wise, Also it seemed the slide was a bit faster with the variable. Wish I had copies of those tapes. Recoil that I felt was negotiable though. Too hard for me to tell.

FWIW

[Duane Thomas]

Cool info. Thanks for sharing.

"FBFPS"?

[Duane Thomas]

I have in 1911s, but that's all. What platforms did you compare? Not to be a wise guy....I'm honestly interested, but did you test both springs before using them them to see how close they were to one another, and then after using them to make sure neither one had changed more significantly than the other (relatively speaking)? R,

I know you're not trying to be a smartass, Bart. Don't worry, I'm not that easy to insult.

The platform I used for this initially was my Wilson Defensive Combat Pistol, and then, years later, I revisited it with my Rock River Arms Limited Match Pistol. These are both full-sized, steel-framed, 5" barrreled, single stack 1911 .45s. Comparing a Wolf 16 pound conventional spring to a Wolff 16.5 pound variable spring was quite noticeable. (Dave Koebensky at Wolff told me they market their variable 1911 spring as "16.5 pounds" because he got tired of people asking, "Is factory standard for .45 ACP 16 or 17 pounds?" I have never been able to understand why they didn't also do the same thing for the conventional design spring. The bottom line is the variable is a 16 pound spring.) Start playing with both the spring design and the weight and things get really interesting. If 16 pound conventional versus "16.5 pound" variable was noticeable, 16 pound conventional versus 14-pound variable was downright dramatic. And yes, I've also tried a conventional spring of the same lighter weight just to make sure it was a combination of spring design and lighter weight, not just a lighter weight thing.

Nope, I did not test the springs before and after, not having access to a recoil spring weight tester. Just for my own edification and knowledge base I'd love to have such a thing, though in all honesty I can't imagine the conventional spring's weight changing much if at all. I just didn't put that many rounds through the gun with the conventional spring. It was more a matter of "Fire a mag or two with each spring, in each weight, of each type" and the results to me were so obvious at that point I didn't feel the need to waste more ammo firing the gun with springs that were clearly giving me inferior performance.

Somewhere in my notes I have a list I put together on the night I went to the range a few years ago with a bunch of different springs, in weights from 11 pounds on up, of conventional and variable design in each weight, and my impressions I got of recoil impulse and amount of muzzle flip, and watching the sights to see which spring weight/design gave me the least of what I call SMB (subsidiary muzzle bounce, that tuning fork effect you get when your spring and load aren't dialed-in, and the gun vibrates up and down after the slide closes for every shot). What I found was that, for me, the 14-pound variable I'd been using for years did indeed work better for me than anything else. But it was still a worthwhile experiment.

[RoryW]

I'm in agreement with G-man and D.R. I believe variable springs are simply smoke and mirrors.

Have you ever taken a Wolff conventional recoil spring and fired it against a variable power recoil spring of the same weight, with the same ammo, back-to-back? To me the difference in felt recoil and muzzle flip is both real and significant.

+10

I run a variable 7lb in my Open IMM and a variable 10lb in my lightened Limited. Night and day between variable and conventional.