45 acp zero FMJ feed issue

[planenut]

First rounds loaded on a new Dillon XL 650.

I loaded:

16 rounds 230 Zero FMJ with 3.8 grains Clays at 1.245 OAL WLP

24 rounds 230 Zero FMJ with 4.0 grains Clays at 1.245 OAL WLP

24 rounds 230 Precisionbullet Moly LRN FP with 4.0 grains Clays at 1.240 OAL WLP

The first round of each mag with the Zero FMJ would not load when releasing the slide. The rest of each mag was fine as was the Precision Moly coated bullets.

The round looked like it was doing a nose dive into the top of the barrel on the first round. All I did was pull the slice back again and release and it chambered and fired fine.

I was shooting a Kimber Ultra Elite 2.75 inch barrel which has been feeding reliably with WWB, Federal and some loads with Hornady 230 LRN and some friends Lead home cast bullets all 230 grain LRN at 1.245 OAL. I checked all the rounds with my Dillon case gage before taking them to the range.

Suggestions on what to change? Also note that I will be using the ammo in a Colt LW Commander once it gets back from the Smith.

[DougCarden]

Try the OAL with the Zero 230s at around 1.230 and see if the problem goes away....

DougC

[planenut]

Try the OAL with the Zero 230s at around 1.230 and see if the problem goes away....

DougC

I'll give that a try.

Thanks

[Steve J]

I use 1.25 OAL with perfect reliability. Factory ammunition is loaded to closer to 1.27 OAL.

Is it always the same magazine or brand of magazine?

Do you ride the slide forward?

Have you checked your extractor tension? If it's to strong and you're riding the slide even slightly the round will hang up and not slide up into the extractor.

What gun is it? How was it built?

Bottom line. I doubt seriously that it is the OAL of the round.

[planenut]

I use 1.25 OAL with perfect reliability. Factory ammunition is loaded to closer to 1.27 OAL.

Is it always the same magazine or brand of magazine?

They were 3 different Tripp Research Mags. All only 4 months old and all have worked well up til now.

Do you ride the slide forward?

I don't think so.

Have you checked your extractor tension? If it's to strong and you're riding the slide even slightly the round will hang up and not slide up into the extractor.

The only extractor issues is it flings the spent brass about 25 feet. I can stand next to my wall made from pvc and screen wire that is 7.5 feet tall and some will go over.

What gun is it? How was it built?

It is a 10 year old Kimber Ultra Elite 2.75 inch barrel. It has been mostly a safe queen up until the last 4 months and I have used it for 3 USPSA matches. I have had no problems with it with store bought ammo or with reloads on a square deal using lead that was home cast. I have always used 230 grain and have not tried 200 or 185. This was 230 grain as well.

Bottom line. I doubt seriously that it is the OAL of the round.

[fastarget]

I have run hundreds of zero 230 , 1.25-1.265 with no issues....suspect the mags....the fact the rest cycle fine tells me your loads are ok.

[Steve J]

What gun is it? How was it built?

It is a 10 year old Kimber Ultra Elite 2.75 inch barrel.

I missed that in your first post. Short guns (anything shorter than Commander length) have very problematic functioning at times. The stroke length is just too short. Was that gun made with an external extractor. That is another weak link.

How does the first round feed when you drop the slide from slide lock?

[Steve J]

I have run hundreds of zero 230 , 1.25-1.265 with no issues....suspect the mags....the fact the rest cycle fine tells me your loads are ok.

And I the same, only I've run tens of thousands of 230 gr FMJ at that length with 100% reliability, but I'm using a full-sized non-factory gun.

[planenut]

I'll try some more and see what happens. I think it was the first three mags and I only had 5 mags worth of that ammo. Then I switched to the Moly and lead.

I was just thinking it was almost like they were too short and because of that, they were going up on too steep an angle and making contact with the top of the barrel ramp.

[Harmon]

i can with utmost confidence tell you that the malfunction is due to cartridge overall length. it SHOULD be longer than 1.250 with that bullet and no longer than 1.270"

[planenut]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I guess I'll be trying some different OAL's.

Will advise how it went in a week or so as I have to fly a few days.

[8ring]

I have had Planenut's exact same problem using Zero 230 FMJ loaded at 1.265 in a brand new STI Trojan. The top round nosedived into the bottom of the ramp. This happened all the time with the mags Brazos Custom sold with it. It happened some of the time with Chip McCormick Power Mags. I reduced the OAL to 1.255 and the first round feed problems pretty much disappeared with the Power Mags but remained with the "stock" STI mags.

Note: The first 150 rounds I shot through it were Magtech 230gr FMJ with 1.265 OAL, all of which fed flawlessly with the stock mags.

I'm beginning to think there's something about the profile of the 230gr Zeros that doesn't agree with my STI. I'll try loading some at 1.275 and another batch at 1.245 and see which works best.

Chris

[planenut]

I have had Planenut's exact same problem using Zero 230 FMJ loaded at 1.265 in a brand new STI Trojan. The top round nosedived into the bottom of the ramp. This happened all the time with the mags Brazos Custom sold with it. It happened some of the time with Chip McCormick Power Mags. I reduced the OAL to 1.255 and the first round feed problems pretty much disappeared with the Power Mags but remained with the "stock" STI mags.

Note: The first 150 rounds I shot through it were Magtech 230gr FMJ with 1.265 OAL, all of which fed flawlessly with the stock mags.

I'm beginning to think there's something about the profile of the 230gr Zeros that doesn't agree with my STI. I'll try loading some at 1.275 and another batch at 1.245 and see which works best.

Chris

Thanks Chris,

Please let me know what you find out. I'm home today but don't think I'll get to try any changes until next week.

Billy

[DougCarden]

Guys, the different ogives on the FMJ bullets can cause you problems. Make a Dummy round and drop it in the barrel and chamber it in your gun from the magazine to see if there are problems.

I have an old factory Springfield barrel that I pulled out of a gun that got a Kart barrel that I use to check OAL in the chamber when setting up the 1050. When my smith was building the FBI HRT .45s and the HRT Paras we loaded the ammo to around 1.220-1.230 OAL for the shop ammo ( whatever FMJs we could get cheap and also 230 LRN)

The last 4k of 230 fmj from Zero I started at 1.245 OAL and had to reduce the OAL to 1.230ish for the round to drop in and out perfectly. I have shot the ammo in a Springfield Champion 4in to several different 5in .45 autos, with different magazines. No problem what so ever. Use your barrel as a guide.

PS...the barrel or case gauge will also help you find cases that are cracked around the case mouth when you are doing your final inspection....If they drop in but won't drop out....chances are the little sucker is cracked on the case mouth.

Hope this information is useful...

DougC