Basic Question

[pops1982]

New to reloading and using a recipe from a friend that reloads. When you are considering data for a particular load there is a specific bullet listed like 170 gr. HDY XTP. My question is is this data good for any 170 gr. bullet like maybe a 170 gr moly swc? Or do you have to find data somewhere for that specific bullet? Is there published data for every bullet type?

Thanks,

Dean

[Jman]

A modern reloading manual would be helpful. I reduce jacketed bullet data by 10% when using lead bullets.

If you haven't spend some time here. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showforum=52

Jim

[FLSlim]

Using the same weight of different brands of jacketed bullets, at start to mid load levels, doesn't worry me too much. But as you approach max, do so with care when switching bullet brands, looking for pressure signs, as bullet designs can affect pressure and velocity. Do not try to interchange load data from lead (or plated) to jacketed bullets. Lead needs to be loaded lighter than the same weight jacketed. Just be safe and buy a load manual or a load book. You can get the Lyman manual for less than $20 and it covers lead loads pretty well, and a loadbook for a specific caliber can be had for around $7. Be safe and do it right.

[pops1982]

A modern reloading manual would be helpful. I reduce jacketed bullet data by 10% when using lead bullets.

If you haven't spend some time here. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showforum=52

Jim

I have the Lyman's 49th edition, the ABC's of reloading and a book for 10mm/40 s&w only. If my understanding is correct a jacketed bullet will produce a higher pressure and velocity than a molly coated because there is more friction with the jacketed bullet, right? If this is correct you could safely use slightly more powder than recommended for the jacketed bullet, right? Just trying to verify my understanding of what I'm reading.

Thanks for your help, Dean

Edited November 10, 2010 by pops1982

[bayoupirate]

Regardless of the load and it's source,

I always start at least 10% below the given charge.

Too many variables!

If it's listed as a max load, I usually go 15%.

[Jman]

If this is correct you could safely use slightly more powder than recommended for the jacketed bullet, right?

No. Start lead bullet loads with 10% LESS. As soon as you can, purchase or barrow a good chronograph.

You are not reloading without one, just guessing. As mentioned their are far to many variables.

[pops1982]

If this is correct you could safely use slightly more powder than recommended for the jacketed bullet, right?

No. Start lead bullet loads with 10% LESS. As soon as you can, purchase or barrow a good chronograph.

You are not reloading without one, just guessing. As mentioned their are far to many variables.

A quote from the ABC's of reloading - "The greater resistance of the jacketed bullet to swaging in the barrel requires higher pressures than with lead bullets." That wouldn't translate to mean more powder could be used with an equal weight lead bullet to reach the same pressures and velocity as the jacketed bullet? Not arguing, just trying to be sure my understanding of the statement is correct and if not why?

As far as the chronograph I've not chronoed the recipe my friend gave but will soon. He has a chronograph.

[fiddler]

A quote from the ABC's of reloading - "The greater resistance of the jacketed bullet to swaging in the barrel requires higher pressures than with lead bullets." That wouldn't translate to mean more powder could be used with an equal weight lead bullet to reach the same pressures and velocity as the jacketed bullet? Not arguing, just trying to be sure my understanding of the statement is correct and if not why?

As far as the chronograph I've not chronoed the recipe my friend gave but will soon. He has a chronograph.

No. There is LESS friction with the lead bullet requiring LESS pressure and so LESS powder to reach the same velocities as a jacketed bullet.

Be careful out there,

Roy

[pops1982]

A quote from the ABC's of reloading - "The greater resistance of the jacketed bullet to swaging in the barrel requires higher pressures than with lead bullets." That wouldn't translate to mean more powder could be used with an equal weight lead bullet to reach the same pressures and velocity as the jacketed bullet? Not arguing, just trying to be sure my understanding of the statement is correct and if not why?

As far as the chronograph I've not chronoed the recipe my friend gave but will soon. He has a chronograph.

No. There is LESS friction with the lead bullet requiring LESS pressure and so LESS powder to reach the same velocities as a jacketed bullet.

Be careful out there,

Roy

Thanks. Trying to be safe, thats why I'm asking questions so I can learn from all of you.

Thanks again,

Dean

[GrumpyOne]

New to reloading and using a recipe from a friend that reloads. When you are considering data for a particular load there is a specific bullet listed like 170 gr. HDY XTP. My question is is this data good for any 170 gr. bullet like maybe a 170 gr moly swc? Or do you have to find data somewhere for that specific bullet? Is there published data for every bullet type?

Thanks,

Dean

Be careful with that. Most of the time, you can switch bullets without too much problems Besides dropping your charge by 10% to start with), but make sure the bullets have the same profile/length.

[metalguy]

Reading this topic with much interest. I too am new to reloading, and before reading this forum, I had never heard of a chonograph, nor its purpose. I am guessing it is used to determine feet per second of specific loads. I have been loading using the Lyman's manual, and sticking to minimum loads on the charts, just to be safe. -----Metalguy

[MARKAVELI]

@MetalG, thats what its exactly is used for + to check the preasure if your loads are high or low,@ pops, careful when choosing a load like others posted watch your bullet leanth and profile also with lead bullets that are not the same as jacketed so start your powder chargelower by 10% good luck fellas and be safe!

[pops1982]

New to reloading and using a recipe from a friend that reloads. When you are considering data for a particular load there is a specific bullet listed like 170 gr. HDY XTP. My question is is this data good for any 170 gr. bullet like maybe a 170 gr moly swc? Or do you have to find data somewhere for that specific bullet? Is there published data for every bullet type?

Thanks,

Dean

Be careful with that. Most of the time, you can switch bullets without too much problems Besides dropping your charge by 10% to start with), but make sure the bullets have the same profile/length.

Let me put it this way. I'm wanting to develop a 40 S&W load for USPSA that acheives major PF. The bullet will be a molley coated 180gr SWC from Billys Bullets and the powder is universal. I dont see published data for that type bullet with that powder. Where do I begin? This will be shot through a 5" Edge.

Edited November 12, 2010 by pops1982

[Jman]

pops. Did not know that Billy Bullets made a 180gr SWC. ???

Anyway, I should caution you on that bullet shape reguardless. Look at his

180 grain Flat Point for better functioning in an auto. No one I know uses

"Universial Clays" so I'm no help there except to ask..have you been to

the Hodgdon Load Data site for that info? Should have some luck.

[FLSlim]

Please don't take this as criticism, I love loading for and shooting the 40. But if you are new to reloading, be careful loading such a high pressure round to higher velocities. Be safe and start your powder loads low and be alert for pressure signs as you work up, make sure your powder drops are accurate (double check), and make sure the OAL of the loaded rounds is appropriate for the bullets and powder charge used (shorter OAL = higher pressure for a given round).

[pops1982]

pops. Did not know that Billy Bullets made a 180gr SWC. ???

Anyway, I should caution you on that bullet shape reguardless. Look at his

180 grain Flat Point for better functioning in an auto. No one I know uses

"Universial Clays" so I'm no help there except to ask..have you been to

the Hodgdon Load Data site for that info? Should have some luck.

You're right, its Billy's 180gr flat point I was referring to. Yes, I have been to Hodgdon's site for load data but they don't list data for this specific bullet and that was my question, if you don't find data for the very bullet you are going to load do you just start with low end data for a similar bullet and work up?

Thanks for you input.

Dean

[Jman]

pops. Did not know that Billy Bullets made a 180gr SWC. ???

Anyway, I should caution you on that bullet shape reguardless. Look at his

180 grain Flat Point for better functioning in an auto. No one I know uses

"Universial Clays" so I'm no help there except to ask..have you been to

the Hodgdon Load Data site for that info? Should have some luck.

You're right, its Billy's 180gr flat point I was referring to. Yes, I have been to Hodgdon's site for load data but they don't list data for this specific bullet and that was my question, if you don't find data for the very bullet you are going to load do you just start with low end data for a similar bullet and work up?

Thanks for you input.

Dean

Yes. With a lead bullet I would be starting around 4.4 grains of Universal and chrono map up a tenth or so at a time. Call it good @ 950 FPS.

[Justsomeguy]

Here's the thing... Certainly a jacketed bullet is harder and has a bit more friction going down the barrel than a lead bullet, but that DOES NOT translate into a lead bullet being able to use more powder. Here's why... 1) Lead bullets are generally larger in diameter than jacketed for the same caliber. Thus, even though they will "slide" while traveling in the barrel a bit easier, they must first enter the rifling and be "swaged" down to proper size. 2) The lead bullet of the same weight is just as hard or harder to start into the rifling (see reason 1) than a jacketed bullet, and so the INITIAL PRESSURE SPIKE is just as high or higher than the jacketed bullet. So... you cannot add more powder because you will spike the pressures higher than a jacketed bullet. Also, 3) the pressure and heat generated by adding more powder is going to result in truly horrific leading of the barrel as a lead bullet will not endure those things as well as a jacketed bullet and the buildup of lead over a number of shots will result in a smaller bore and MORE PRESSURE! Things will go wrong if you exceed the recommendations for lead bullets as far as powder charges go.

So while it is true that you can, with lead bullets, use a bit less powder to achieve similar speeds to jacketed, it is only because once it is moving it takes less effort down the barrel. However, GETTING it moving requires just as much or maybe even more energy and that is where the most pressure is generated.

[planenut]

So while it is true that you can, with lead bullets, use a bit less powder to achieve similar speeds to jacketed, it is only because once it is moving it takes less effort down the barrel. However, GETTING it moving requires just as much or maybe even more energy and that is where the most pressure is generated.

I like this answer!

[pops1982]

Here's the thing... Certainly a jacketed bullet is harder and has a bit more friction going down the barrel than a lead bullet, but that DOES NOT translate into a lead bullet being able to use more powder. Here's why... 1) Lead bullets are generally larger in diameter than jacketed for the same caliber. Thus, even though they will "slide" while traveling in the barrel a bit easier, they must first enter the rifling and be "swaged" down to proper size. 2) The lead bullet of the same weight is just as hard or harder to start into the rifling (see reason 1) than a jacketed bullet, and so the INITIAL PRESSURE SPIKE is just as high or higher than the jacketed bullet. So... you cannot add more powder because you will spike the pressures higher than a jacketed bullet. Also, 3) the pressure and heat generated by adding more powder is going to result in truly horrific leading of the barrel as a lead bullet will not endure those things as well as a jacketed bullet and the buildup of lead over a number of shots will result in a smaller bore and MORE PRESSURE! Things will go wrong if you exceed the recommendations for lead bullets as far as powder charges go.

So while it is true that you can, with lead bullets, use a bit less powder to achieve similar speeds to jacketed, it is only because once it is moving it takes less effort down the barrel. However, GETTING it moving requires just as much or maybe even more energy and that is where the most pressure is generated.

Thanks for the very informative info. justsomeguy. Really helpful.