trooper class info

[craigsteffek]

Hey all I am new to three gun and after reading the trooper rules that MGM has on there website it seems like this is the div for me. My question is that do most three gun matches have trooper as a div. Also equipment for trooper. does everyone in trooper shoot together or is this major minor power factor and optic/iron. Also during the stages do you carry all of your equipment with you or do you stage your extra ammo and guns thanks for your info.

Craig

[Chuck Anderson]

Seems to run a little less than 50% of matches with Trooper class. MGM in Trooper is definitely an interesting place to start 3 Gun. (well it's closer to 6 gun at the Ironman). Each match varies a bit for Trooper rules. All of them I'm aware of allow you to drop your gear at the stage and not pack it when running the actual stage. All of them require you to carry whatever guns/equipment/ammo you're going to use. Some of them will allow an ammo can at the range in addition to what you're packing but it kind of depends on how much ammo you need for the match. The Ironman is the only one I think this is really an issue at. You're guns and all gear have to stay at the range overnight and all maintanence needs to be done there with stuff you've been packing all day.

As far as power factor, I believe IMGA matches are the only ones doing Trooper and they don't have minor/Major PF. Also with Trooper it's normally a run what ya brung division. Open guns, extra rifle uppers, spare or multiple shotguns. You can pretty much shoot whatever you want, you just have to carry it until you don't want to use it any more.

[Jadeslade]

Ft Benning Match has trooper class as well. Its great if you are fit enough to carry all your guns and ammo. The great advantage is you can use 2 optics on rifles and any kind of guns you want. Chuck won Trooper at Ironman, so he'g got that down pretty good. Haven't seen it at any other matches-but I haven't been to all. Leave your gear at the range, use nothing but what's in your pack on Day 1. Tough division.

[Chuck Anderson]

I think the deciding factor for many clubs on whether to have Trooper or not is the range layout. Ironman, Ft. Benning (and I think) Larue all offer Trooper as well as a couple of smaller matches. It works at those ranges because of the distance between bays. Having Trooper class at Rocky Mountain just would not work at all. People would still be hiking to their last stage now and the match was in August. It's not just two optics on the rifle at most matches either. It's pretty much whatever you want to do to get it done. If you want to tote a Dillon Mini Gun I'd be willing to bet Travis would figure out a way to let you shoot it in Trooper.

[SinistralRifleman]

Trooper is more of a logistical challenge than a physical one most venues. Ironman is the one where it is 50/50 physical and logistics.

These are the same rules you'll find at the Ironman match: http://www.cavalrymanufacturing.com/competition/trooperrules.html

[fastmtnbiker33w]

I'm having a serious debate about running trooper at MGM, but I'm worried I may be at a disadvantage if I don't run any optics. i.e. Would I be more competitive in the limited class. MGM will be my only 3-gun.....probably ever. It happens to be at the right time and location for me next summer. I'll barely be able to afford it. But it looks like so much fun.

Seems like it would make more sense to give people a time bonus for being a "trooper" in whatever class they want to shoot. Score everyone the same in their category, then deduct some time if they trooped through the entire event.

[Chuck Anderson]

Yes you will be at a disadvantage without optics and Limited would be a much better choice.

[fastmtnbiker33w]

Has anyone brought up the idea of a time bonus? Trooper class as it is has an even bigger emphasis on the gear and equipment than open class. Someone who can afford a sweet detachable scope mount and very expensive durable scope as well as BUIS, durable tactical optics on the shotgun w/ BUIS, a spare pistol, and a sweet rucksack to carry everything would have a distinct advantage over the average guy who wants to be in the Trooper class.

Is my thinking off track?

[Chuck Anderson]

There aren't a whole lot of matches running this format anyway and the Trooper class is normally pretty small. Dividing the field up between the different Divisions would just make it even smaller. Making it a subset with a time bonus would be...problematic. At some matches Trooper is pretty difficult. MGM Ironman comes to mind. At others, like Ft. Benning last year, I basically carried all my gear from the beginning of the match anyway, except for one box of shotgun shells I left in the car till the next day. If I had the option of getting a time bonus at Ft. Benning for carrying that little bit of extra ammo, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Heck if I was competing in any match and could get a time advantage for carrying some extra crap I'd do it.

If you haven't shot three gun before, I would really recommend against trying it at your first and only match. Particularly at the Ironman. Sorting out the logistics is part of the fun of Trooper and not having shot three gun is going to put you at a serious disadvantage to the guys that shot three gun before. Go, shoot Iron sights and have fun.

[DocMedic]

Having Trooper class at Rocky Mountain just would not work at all. People would still be hiking to their last stage now and the match was in August.

Well It wouldn't be "THAT" Bad, But you certainly want to start on stage one or the last stage

[SinistralRifleman]

Has anyone brought up the idea of a time bonus? Trooper class as it is has an even bigger emphasis on the gear and equipment than open class. Someone who can afford a sweet detachable scope mount and very expensive durable scope as well as BUIS, durable tactical optics on the shotgun w/ BUIS, a spare pistol, and a sweet rucksack to carry everything would have a distinct advantage over the average guy who wants to be in the Trooper class.

Is my thinking off track?

Most of the people competing in Trooper are doing it because they like the experience and camaraderie on the trooper squads. I don't think there are many "average" people that shoot trooper at Ironman; most of the people doing it already own all the gear, the rucksack, and some crazy guns. One of the reasons we made trooper was to give people a venue to use all this cool stuff they have, but still make it challenging and practical.

You also don't need much more than Tac-Scope level equipment to do well. The main advantage people can gain over Tac-Scope equipment at Ironman is a detach mag fed shotgun; even then we've still had people place well using tube feds. Don Langworthy won in 2006, was second in 2008, 3rd in 2009, and 5th this year using a M3 Benelli. http://www.cavalrymanufacturing.com/competition/trooperroster.html

I also would say that unless you have some kind of military, LE, or commercial school tactical background, trooper is not the place to start out at the Ironman. We have had some first time 3 gunners in trooper at Ironman, but they were generally military, law enforcement, or training junkies and were using it as an extension of training. The first few years I shot Ironman before trooper existed were challenging enough trying to manage logistics and make it through the match.

If you do want to do it I have a complete recommended gear packing list/guide I can send you so you can try to survive the match.

Edited November 13, 2010 by SinistralRifleman

[fastmtnbiker33w]

Has anyone brought up the idea of a time bonus? Trooper class as it is has an even bigger emphasis on the gear and equipment than open class. Someone who can afford a sweet detachable scope mount and very expensive durable scope as well as BUIS, durable tactical optics on the shotgun w/ BUIS, a spare pistol, and a sweet rucksack to carry everything would have a distinct advantage over the average guy who wants to be in the Trooper class.

Is my thinking off track?

Most of the people competing in Trooper are doing it because they like the experience and camaraderie on the trooper squads. I don't think there are many "average" people that shoot trooper at Ironman; most of the people doing it already own all the gear, the rucksack, and some crazy guns. One of the reasons we made trooper was to give people a venue to use all this cool stuff they have, but still make it challenging and practical.

You also don't need much more than Tac-Scope level equipment to do well. The main advantage people can gain over Tac-Scope equipment at Ironman is a detach mag fed shotgun; even then we've still had people place well using tube feds. Don Langworthy won in 2006, was second in 2008, 3rd in 2009, and 5th this year using a M3 Benelli. http://www.cavalrymanufacturing.com/competition/trooperroster.html

I also would say that unless you have some kind of military, LE, or commercial school tactical background, trooper is not the place to start out at the Ironman. We have had some first time 3 gunners in trooper at Ironman, but they were generally military, law enforcement, or training junkies and were using it as an extension of training. The first few years I shot Ironman before trooper existed were challenging enough trying to manage logistics and make it through the match.

If you do want to do it I have a complete recommended gear packing list/guide I can send you so you can try to survive the match.

I'm ex-military, still dabble in professional level mountain biking, do a crap-load of trail building in deep backcountry. Carrying everything is not a problem.

I may flip a coin to decide. I still have a couple of months until registration opens.