Artsville Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 Well..i finally sat down at setup my 40 on the dillon 650. I heard and learned so many things from this forum. I want to thank everyone. I used mixed brass, wspp, HSM plated 165gr rnfp, and n320. My goal was 1.126oal. I had no problems with bell and crimp using dillon dies. I was pleased. Now for the sanity check. I couldn't find a load for the 165gr HSM plated and n320. VV had a load for fmj 165gr of 4.9grns. I backed it off about 12% and my load was 4.3. Is this a fairly safe method? Some say load like lead and others it seems load like jacketed, and yet others take 10% of jacketed and call it good. I thought i was conservative enough, but now that it is time to shoot them i am reconsidering. So what say ye? So my oal was kind of bugging me as it ranged from 1.126 to 1.133. I know mixed brass can do that and i have not separated to check consistancy by brand of brass. They fit in the mags and seem to chamber and eject with no issues. Is this a normal variance? Anyway i thought i would double check the load before firing these off. I ultimately will be loading MG 180gr JHP with n320. Are the JHP gonna be ok with my 4" xd? thnx guys.... art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 (edited) Well..i finally sat down at setup my 40 on the dillon 650. I heard and learned so many things from this forum. I want to thank everyone. I used mixed brass, wspp, HSM plated 165gr rnfp, and n320. My goal was 1.126oal. I had no problems with bell and crimp using dillon dies. I was pleased. Now for the sanity check. I couldn't find a load for the 165gr HSM plated and n320. VV had a load for fmj 165gr of 4.9grns. I backed it off about 12% and my load was 4.3. Is this a fairly safe method? Some say load like lead and others it seems load like jacketed, and yet others take 10% of jacketed and call it good. I thought i was conservative enough, but now that it is time to shoot them i am reconsidering. So what say ye? So my oal was kind of bugging me as it ranged from 1.126 to 1.133. I know mixed brass can do that and i have not separated to check consistancy by brand of brass. They fit in the mags and seem to chamber and eject with no issues. Is this a normal variance? Anyway i thought i would double check the load before firing these off. I ultimately will be loading MG 180gr JHP with n320. Are the JHP gonna be ok with my 4" xd? thnx guys.... art I have not loaded anything that short, but 4.3 gr of N320 with a 165gr is probably not going to make major or just barley make it, so I think you are safe shooting them, you are way down from what I have seen folks shooting. Lots of guys loading 5.0gr with a 180 Zero JHP, and a 165 would get more powder. Just check your primers and then do the crono thing. The oal variance is common when rounds are loaded when not all stations are full, and it probably won't have any affect on your initial testing. +or- .005 is just insignificant and can be just the variance in the bullets you are using and the brass. My load is 4.5gr with a 185gr Precision set 1.185 makes 172pf. Edited September 25, 2010 by CocoBolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 That load looks safe by a fair margin. VV lists 5.3 to 5.9gr of N320 with a 155gr plated bullet, and 10gr isn't a big jump in weight, so you should be fine. See what it does on the chrono and then bump it in .2gr increments (.1 is hard to tell the difference in most cases). That OAL variation is always going to be there...bullets aren't identical, cases aren't identical, the shell plate moves and flexes etc, etc. With new brass I still get maybe two thousandths either way...not worth worrying about. There's no real way to know if your XD will like the MG JHPs, but I'd suspect it will feed them if it feeds other hollow point ammo okay. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 Well..i finally sat down at setup my 40 on the dillon 650. I heard and learned so many things from this forum. I want to thank everyone. I used mixed brass, wspp, HSM plated 165gr rnfp, and n320. My goal was 1.126oal. I had no problems with bell and crimp using dillon dies. I was pleased. Now for the sanity check. I couldn't find a load for the 165gr HSM plated and n320. VV had a load for fmj 165gr of 4.9grns. I backed it off about 12% and my load was 4.3. Is this a fairly safe method? Some say load like lead and others it seems load like jacketed, and yet others take 10% of jacketed and call it good. I thought i was conservative enough, but now that it is time to shoot them i am reconsidering. So what say ye? So my oal was kind of bugging me as it ranged from 1.126 to 1.133. I know mixed brass can do that and i have not separated to check consistancy by brand of brass. They fit in the mags and seem to chamber and eject with no issues. Is this a normal variance? Anyway i thought i would double check the load before firing these off. I ultimately will be loading MG 180gr JHP with n320. Are the JHP gonna be ok with my 4" xd? thnx guys.... art When loading plated bullets, (first, plated are difficult to load because of the plating peeling off, easier to over crimp, etc.) you should use lead bullet data. Lead will almost always be faster than jacketed, so it takes less powder to make the same velocity and PF. Your OAL variance is not that big of a deal. More than likely it's from your setup (not having the shell plate full when you set the OAL, plus a bit of variance in the bullet itself.) The MG JHP's will be fine in your XD, but you'll have to work your load back up since jacketed load differently than plated. You should think seriously about getting a chrono and a couple of load manuals (if you don't have any manuals!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artsville Posted September 25, 2010 Author Share Posted September 25, 2010 Thnx guys. Have two manuals but they must be older as 320 is hardly ever listed. I hope they are not too low now. About the chrono thing, do ranges let you set up a chrono? The guys said if I talk to the RO I could setup after the match. How does everyone get this done? So set oal with the toolhead full, I will try next time. Can 1911 pistols shoot jhp? I thought they were more meant for round nose or ball bullets? You guys are great! Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 Thnx guys. Have two manuals but they must be older as 320 is hardly ever listed. I hope they are not too low now. About the chrono thing, do ranges let you set up a chrono? The guys said if I talk to the RO I could setup after the match. How does everyone get this done? So set oal with the toolhead full, I will try next time. Can 1911 pistols shoot jhp? I thought they were more meant for round nose or ball bullets? You guys are great! Art Get a Loadbooks, "One Caliber, One Book" and it has all the major manufacturers (bullet and powder) data. I'm a member at a small club where I can get a bay all by myself any time I want, but most clubs will let you hang around afterwards and chrono. Usually there are a couple of other folks who would like to check their loads as well, if you trust them! Yep, 1911s shoot JHPs just fine. Guns with ramped barrels usually run them just fine, and guns using the traditional frame ramp just need to be polished properly (if at all) to use them. Sometimes you'll have to play with the OAL, but even that isn't usually necessary. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 (edited) You should have no problems setting up your chrono as long as all range safety rules are followed. Chronos are an integral part of reloading and shooting. Any concerns regarding setting one up, talk to whoever might be in charge at that time if your range has onsite range officers. Today's 1911's should have no problems shooting JHP's. All of the manufacturers of 1911's as well as companies making aftermarket barrels manufacture their barrels to accept JHP's as well as other bullet designs. In the early days barrels had to be "throated" to widen the feed ramp portion of the barrel to accept bullets other than "ball" ammo. This is not to say that a particular gun won't have feeding issues which some possibly will. These individual guns will have to have their issues corrected. Issues that could cause feeding problems include rough feed ramps, breach face burrs, overly tight extractors and magazine issues. All of which are fairly easy to fix. What Bart means as far as trusting other shooters using you chrono is the fact that folks have accidently shot chronos while shooting through them. I've had it happen to me twice. Said offender paid for repairs both times as he is a good friend. Pat Edited September 25, 2010 by whatmeworry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artsville Posted September 25, 2010 Author Share Posted September 25, 2010 Yeah I have heard of that before as I have seen others not allow them to shoot thru heir chrono. With all the money I have spent will a cheap $100 chrono do the job? I guess I should read up on that item as well. Thnx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 With all the money I have spent will a cheap $100 chrono do the job? I guess I should read up on that item as well. Thnx It should do the job...keep the screens out of direct sunglight, and if you get a chance to compare (one in front of the other) to someone's more expensive chrono, that's a great idea. After a few big matches you'll have an idea of how close your chrono is to typical match chronos. It's still smart to pad the power factor by a fair margin...I like 173+ for Major and 135+ for Minor...very little chance you won't make it if you follow that rule and aren't unknowingly using something like a powder that is revers temperature sensitive (slower as the temps go up and vice-versa). R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artsville Posted September 25, 2010 Author Share Posted September 25, 2010 Another question? Most of the load data I see are from barrels that are 5" or so. The longer the barrel the higher the velocity. I shoot a 4"barrel so how much velocity would I lose being a bit shorter? Also some of the load's oal are longer than my xd can handle so the shorter oal will increase pressure which would increase velocity. Is there a way to extrapolate these specifications to adjust the recipe? Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 (edited) Another question? Most of the load data I see are from barrels that are 5" or so. The longer the barrel the higher the velocity. I shoot a 4"barrel so how much velocity would I lose being a bit shorter? Also some of the load's oal are longer than my xd can handle so the shorter oal will increase pressure which would increase velocity. Is there a way to extrapolate these specifications to adjust the recipe? Art The typical figure used is roughly 50fps per inch of barrel, but it's possible to have one 4" barrel be 50fps faster than another, otherwise identical 4" barrel...so it's really hard to say. The 50fps rule is more for when you shorten an existing barrel than anything else. I don't know of any way of accurately extrapolating how X difference in OAl will cause Y difference in velocity. It would vary with each powder/bullet combo and the only way to tell would be to chrono a whole bunch (maybe 100 rounds), then change the OAL (but nothing else), and chrono another 100, change the OAL and repeat. Do that increasing and decreasing the OAL and you could then plot a slope, but there's always a chance it won't be perfectly linear (in fact, likely it won't be) out near the ends. R, P.S. are these sorts of things not covered in your manuals, or do you just have data books? Edited September 26, 2010 by G-ManBart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artsville Posted September 26, 2010 Author Share Posted September 26, 2010 i have a few books but i read alot of manuals at work and the last thing i feel like doing is opening another manual when i get home......but i guess i will have start doing some reading..... thnx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justsomeguy Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 (edited) You really want a chronograph! They are essential to load development of any kind, but especially in this series of games played by people here. I would recommend the CED ProChrony Digital. It is relatively inexpensive and the one I have has proven to be accurate compared to what is expected and to most club chronographs, though some range chronographs are better than others. Like Bart said, the only problems encountered seem to be with sunlight directly shining into the "windows" of the chronograph (that would be ANY chronograph). Cloudy days or shady spots are preferred for best accuracy. A standard USPSA target can be taped over the "shadow baffles" of your chrony, front to back, to keep sunlight from shining directly into the windows. Alternately, if you mount your chrony on a camera tripod, and most people do, then it generally has a means of rotating the chrony 90 degrees to the side and you can get good readings by doing that away from the sunlight. The chrony will still operate laid over like that. It just might seem weird shooting through the uprights if they are sideways rather than straight up and down. Edited September 26, 2010 by Justsomeguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artsville Posted October 4, 2010 Author Share Posted October 4, 2010 finally got a chance to shoot these loads....i don't have a chrono but..... 100rounds all were flawless....not one failure at all. The load was super soft though.....but shot fine at paper...... anyway...just thought i'd share that with everyone. I need a chrono now..... thnx for all the advice....going right now to reload some more..... art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now