230gr FMJ load advice

[njl]

Using this data from Hodgdon's site as well as data from my Speer #14 which lists min/max loads of 5.5/6.3gr)

230 GR. HDY FMJ FP Hodgdon Universal .451" 1.200" 5.1 716 11,800 CUP 5.6 844 16,800 CUP

I loaded my first .45acp rounds with 230gr Precision Delta FMJ, Universal Clays, COAL of 1.260", and powder charges of 5.1, 5.24, 5.38, 5.54, and 5.73gr (these are avgs of 5 powder drops at each setting).

I shot a magazine of each load through a full size 1911 and a Glock 21. The results:

fps

charge 1911 G21

5.1 631 620

5.24 666 669

5.38 717 692

5.54 733 706

5.73 774 762

For reference, Blazer 230gr from the G21 gives abuot 811fps and from the 1911 840fps.

The recoil on those first two was nice and soft...but the velocity was a bit lower than expected. Honestly, I was amazed that each gun functioned at such low velocity...there were no jams or failures of any kind. At 5.1g, the spent brass was literally just falling out of the guns. At the higher end (5.54 & 5.73) the recoil was starting to feel more like factory .45acp ammo...but the velocity was still kind of low. I can see why some people say Universal Clays in .45 has nasty recoil...they were probably loading using Speer's data (which goes much higher than Hodgdon's) and getting 800-850fps.

Accuracy from the 5.1gr load was great...but I'm afraid if I loaded a bunch like that, eventually I'd get ejection failures or short cycling and there was what looked like unburned powder in the gun after those.

Since I have a metric buttload of Universal Clays, I'm tempted to just load up a batch at 5.45gr or so, figure on getting in the low 700s fps, and make sure they reliably function as the guns get dirty. Not that it matters at the moment...but that's not even reliably going to make major power factor.

Given that my goal is 230gr major loads with less than factory recoil and preferably clean burning without lots of smoke, what would be better powders to look at? Maybe WSF or 231? Metering well in a Dillon powder measure is another plus. Since I don't shoot any games where PF matters, I can give up on making major and focus more on just finding a soft shooting reliable load.

I was kind of disappointed, because I'd been really happy so far with UC for 9mm (making minor PF with reduced recoil).

Edited to fix Speer min/max numbers...I didn't remember correctly, but went upstairs for the book.

Edited March 16, 2010 by njl

[jbrought]

What do you think about solo 1000 or just plain ol Clays.

[njl]

I may still try another (faster) powder, but I did some experimenting with more Universal Clays and varying OAL.

As I'd hoped, reducing OAL a bunch, seems to have cranked up the pressure. I loaded a few more small batches with all the same components mentioned above. This time I loaded 5.27gr @ 1.215", 5.42gr @ 1.215", and 5.54gr @ 1.268". In that last one, I wanted to see what would happen if I went a little longer with OAL. I was going to do even longer...but apparently that's about the longest OAL with this bullet I can do and still have the Springfield 1911 chamber them or fit them in the mags.

------ G21 ----- 1911

5.27gr 716fps 744fps

5.42gr 739fps 774fps

5.54gr 674fps 748fps

Also, I realized today that I was looking at old info for major PF (major was 175pf)...apparently major only needs 165pf now...so @ 230gr, that's just 718fps...so my 5.42gr load @ 1.215" would make major.

As I was finishing up, I did have my first stovepipe (with one of the lighter loads). I'm thinking of loading some more at 5.45gr and seeing if I have any more reliability issues.

[fltbed]

My “go to” powder for the 45 acp is WST. In everything from “mouse fart” Bullseye type loads to “Mil-spec Ball” type loads. Clean burning, stable, and very accurate.

My favorite USPSA loads are:

230 gr. Zero FMJ

4.5 gr. WST

OAL 1.250

230 gr. Bear Creek RN

4.4 gr. WST

OAL 1.250

Both loads produce a 170 PF in my Springfield “loaded” model.

Jeff

[njl]

I happened to be passing by a Gander Mountain today, so I went powder shopping. The only powder they had from my list of "fast powders for .45" was Clays...so I bought 14oz. It'll probably be a week or two before I get a chance to chrony any.

[EEH]

TRY 4.7 Titegroup--at 1.255--just my .02

[njl]

Titegroup is one of the powders I was hoping to find...that Clays, or Solo 1000. Clays is the only one of those that they had.

[R A Miller]

My “go to” powder for the 45 acp is WST. In everything from “mouse fart” Bullseye type loads to “Mil-spec Ball” type loads. Clean burning, stable, and very accurate.

My favorite USPSA loads are:

230 gr. Zero FMJ

4.5 gr. WST

OAL 1.250

230 gr. Bear Creek RN

4.4 gr. WST

OAL 1.250

Both loads produce a 170 PF in my Springfield “loaded” model.

Jeff

+1 IMO WST is the way to go for .45acp. Very clean burning and soft recoil. Faster than Titegroup, Clays or Solo 1000 according to the Vihta Vuori Burn Rate Chart. WST is inverse temperature sensitive, something to be aware of in hot weather. I have a load similar to Jeff's. From memory, something like:

230 gr MG FMJ

4.4 gr WST

OAL 1.230

170 PF out of my 5" Kimber Classic Custom (pre II) and about the same out of my S&W 625 5".

Rick

[XD Niner]

4.0 grains of Clays at an OAL of 1.240 with either Zero or Montana Gold 230 grain JHP's gives me a 170 PF (740 fps.) That is through a 5" barrel.

[njl]

4.0 grains of Clays at an OAL of 1.240 with either Zero or Montana Gold 230 grain JHP's gives me a 170 PF (740 fps.) That is through a 5" barrel.

Cool. Do you have data on a Clays load for 230gr FMJ? I'm probably going to order JHP next time anyway...but for the moment, FMJ is what I have.

[XD Niner]

Same powder load but an OAL of 1.246 for Zero FMJ's.

[fltbed]

+1 IMO WST is the way to go for .45acp. Very clean burning and soft recoil. Faster than Titegroup, Clays or Solo 1000 according to the Vihta Vuori Burn Rate Chart. WST is inverse temperature sensitive, something to be aware of in hot weather.Rick

According to the Winchester/Hodgdon burn rate chart WST is slower burning than those you mentioned, falling between VV320 and Accurate #2.

Those loads I settled on were made up in 90+ degree temps. As you mentioned WST is reverse temperature sensitive and my loads will pick up around 40-50 f.p.s. (or 8-10 PF) when the thermometer drops below freezing. That kind of “temperature sensitivity” I can live with.

Jeff

[markm87]

My “go to” powder for the 45 acp is WST. In everything from “mouse fart” Bullseye type loads to “Mil-spec Ball” type loads. Clean burning, stable, and very accurate.

What is your WST powder charge for Mil spec ball type loads?

[njl]

Here's the chrony results from the weekend

G21SF, Clays, Precision Delta 230gr FMJ, COAL 1.253" +- 0.005

3.7gr 663.9fps

3.8gr 688.2fps

3.9gr 704.8fps

4.0gr 720.5fps

Same loads from a Springfield full size 1911

3.7gr 691.1fps

3.8gr 728.9fps

3.9gr 724.2fps *

4.0gr 757.2fps

Not sure what happened with the 1911 3.9gr string. Its low was lower than the 3.8 low, and its high was lower than the 3.8 high...so it's not like there was just one extra low velocity round that threw off the avg for the string. The G21 strings were 10 shots (all the chrony will allow). The 1911 strings were 8 shots (all my mags will allow).

[markm87]

I popped open my pound of WST this weekend. I was shocked at the color of the powder. VERY light gray, and it indeed smelled like pepper as someone here noted. I had read that this powder was light gray, but this stuff is nearly white in color.

[njl]

My “go to” powder for the 45 acp is WST. In everything from “mouse fart” Bullseye type loads to “Mil-spec Ball” type loads. Clean burning, stable, and very accurate.

My favorite USPSA loads are:

230 gr. Zero FMJ

4.5 gr. WST

OAL 1.250

230 gr. Bear Creek RN

4.4 gr. WST

OAL 1.250

Both loads produce a 170 PF in my Springfield “loaded” model.

Jeff

Bass Pro actually carries WST in the small sized cans. Have you compared it to Clays? Looking at Hodgdon's data, it doesn't seem like the low end is very low (starts at major and goes up from there).

[fltbed]

Bass Pro actually carries WST in the small sized cans. Have you compared it to Clays? Looking at Hodgdon's data, it doesn't seem like the low end is very low (starts at major and goes up from there).

I did try Clays a while ago and I found it to be just as soft shooting and just as clean burning. My only fear with Clays (especially with 230 gr. Bullets) is that it’s loaded right at max pressure to just make major. All it takes is one weak case to allow some bullet set back while the round is being chambered and pressures can spike catastrophically. No such worry’s with WST.

Load data is often confusing. Especially when you compare three or more sources. It is very rare that anyone’s start and max loads are even close let alone the velocities. That’s why it’s important to load ammo to your guns requirements.

What I was taught was to first determine what OAL your gun likes, then work up the powder charge. Determine a safe start charge by comparing at least three data sources and finding an average max load. Back off from that number by 10% and you have a safe start load. From there you can work up or down depending on weather your looking for a max load or a mouse fart type.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

[njl]

I may try some WST then. I loaded some more with Clays last night...maybe I'll get to chrono them tomorrow. 3.7gr, 1.233". Based on previously collected data, I'm expecting somewhere in the 670-700fps range and pretty soft shooting.

[njl]

I may try some WST then. I loaded some more with Clays last night...maybe I'll get to chrono them tomorrow. 3.7gr, 1.233". Based on previously collected data, I'm expecting somewhere in the 670-700fps range and pretty soft shooting.

I just noticed I never did reply with the data from these. As expected, I got 690fps.

I just got some Zero 230gr FMJ, which are a bit longer than the PD bullets. Without adjusting the seater from what was doing 1.233" with PD, I got 1.240" with the Zero's. OTTOMH, I can't remember the bullet length difference, but I do remember noting that even at 0.007" longer OAL, the case volume was going to be just a little reduced, so I figured no need to adjust.

I loaded some at 3.7gr and some at 4.0gr of Clays. I only tested them in the G21SF, and got 694 and 732fps.

My only complaint with either of these was the amount of smoke. They were awfully smokey...a little worse than the PD bullets. I gather things might improve if I could actually get Zero JHP (no exposed lead base or shelled out the extra $ for MG CMJ). Is there a powder that'll give similar performance to Clays, but not lay down a smokescreen between me and the target with FMJ bullets?

[njl]

I bought some WST and have tried it out the past two weekends. It seems a much better powder for making .45 major than Clays. At the bottom of the load range, it makes similar velocity to a minimum load of Clays. At the middle of the range, it's making about as much velocity as a max load of Clays.

Based on the chrono results, I think I'll keep the clays for 230gr mouse fart 3.7gr loads, and use the WST at 4.6gr for 230gr major loads.