Noveske KX3 "Flaming Pig"

[Dan O]

Ok, after following the other thread on here about an AR brake for hunting, and searching all over the web and on here, I still can't figure out straight answers on a couple of things. Maybe I'm just slow but here it is:

I understand the downsides of:

-Heavy

-Expensive

-Not particularly effective for recoil reduction or flash suppression

I also understand:

-Designed for SBR's to reduce felt shooter/bystander muzzle blast

What I want to know:

-Is it bad or harmful to mount the pig on my RRA 16" Mid-Length? Why?

-Is it bad or harmful to mount the pig on a 16" CAR Length? Why?

-Which will be nicer on my ears when hunting coyotes in an open field, the standard A2 flash hider or the pig?

Thanks for the help in advance!

[00bullitt]

No it is in no way harmful to run the Pig on your 16" carbine or middy gas barrel. It is designed to increase backpressure to aid in reliability and help create a little dwell time for the short barrels as well as direct blast forward. The heavy 7+ ounces is more noticeable on the end of a 16" barrel though.

If you are not running a suppressor....this is the next best thing for your ears.

[Dan O]

Awesome^^^. That is exactly what I wanted to know!

[gunut]

I would have called nov. but I see you got all your answers and fast !

[USMC03]

You may find this article useful:

03designgroup | Noveske KX3 and Barrel Length Considerations

"-Is it bad or harmful to mount the pig on my RRA 16" Mid-Length? Why?"

It's not harmful, but the KX3 due to it's design, increases gas pressure. I know of a couple shooters that had finicky 10.5" uppers, added the KX3 and they ran reliably. This is due to the increased back pressure created by the KX3.

The main advantage of the mid-length gas system on the 16" barrel is that it has less chamber pressure and has a slightly softer recoil impulse than the carbine length gas system. By adding the KX3 you are adding approximately 8 ounces to the end of the barrel, you are adding approximately 2.75" to the overall length of the barrel (18.75" overall length). From a velocity, weight, and recoil impulse stand point, if I had to choose an overall length of 18.75" I would choose a 18" barrel with a rifle length gas system (higher velocity, lighter weight, and softer recoil impulse).

There are a lot of disadvantages to this set up, and the only advantage I could think of would be directing blast and gases down range.

-Is it bad or harmful to mount the pig on a 16" CAR Length? Why?

Same as above, but consider that the carbine gas system has higher pressures, and the carbine gas system on a 16" barrel has increased dwell time. The increased dwell time (time that the bullet is in the barrel after it passes the gas port) is creating extra back pressure, adding the KX3 will add even more back pressure into the system.

This article explains the carbine and mid-lenght gas systems:

03designgroup | Carbine vs. Mid-Length Gas System on a 16" Barrel

After reading that article click on this link: http://www.bushmaster.com/anatomy_bushmaster.asp (click the "Start" button to start the animation) - then click on "SPLIT" at the bottom of the screen. Then watch the cycle of operation. Note where the gas port (gas hole) is located. Watch as the bullet travels down the barrel and past the gas port. Think about the information I posted above. If the barrel were longer, it will result in more gas being pumped into the gas tube and into the action of the carbine. More gas equals more force, more force equals a higher recoil impulse.

Kind of hard to explain on the internet, much easier to show someone face to face. Hope this makes sense.

Again you are increasing the overall barrel length to approximately 18.75" and adding a half pound to the end of the barrel. The further you get extra weight away from the center of gravity the more you will notice it. 8 ounces on the end of a 16" barrel will feel much heavier than 8 ounces on top of the flat top receiver.

Like the mid-length, there are a lot of disadvantages to this set up (even more disadvantages if you consider how the D.I. gas system works and factor in the added back pressure), and the only advantage I could think of would be directing blast and gases down range.

-Which will be nicer on my ears when hunting coyotes in an open field, the standard A2 flash hider or the pig?

The KX3 (pig) doesn't have as loud of a "crack" as a barrel with the A2 flash hider, but it is still loud, and I would still recommend wearing hearing protection.

I wouldn't recommend using the KX3 on a 16" barrel. The disadvantages far outweigh the advantages.

Hope this helps

[Dan O]

-Which will be nicer on my ears when hunting coyotes in an open field, the standard A2 flash hider or the pig?

The KX3 (pig) doesn't have as loud of a "crack" as a barrel with the A2 flash hider, but it is still loud, and I would still recommend wearing hearing protection.

I wouldn't recommend using the KX3 on a 16" barrel. The disadvantages far outweigh the advantages.

Hope this helps

Thank you for the info, helluva post!

That's the conclusion I had kind of come to as far as mounting on a 16" barrel. I was aware of the differences between the CAR gas system vs. middy vs. rifle, that's why I chose the middy in the first place.

All disadvantages aside, it is not always practical to wear hearing protection while hunting (as mentioned in a different thread) and I was looking for something that might help with the punishment to my hearing without getting into solutions that involve a lot of red tape.

I have another idea but I have to figure out the legality issues first and if it's worth it.

[00bullitt]

All of the above are true. Much the same as adding a suppressor. I run a suppressor. Recoil impulse is increased.I added a heavier buffer and it calmed it back down.

While hunting pigs and the pig attached prior to my acquiring a suppressor, I have fired a handful of shots(4-5) and hardly had any ringing in my ears. It was that effective at directing the majority of sound and blast in front of me at a distant to allow my ears a little forgiveness for that volley of shots. Would I have liked to have had on hearing protection. Yep. But I'm glad it was not just an A2 or other flash hiding device or brake.

[B_Ayers]

If you are worried about hearing protection and hunting in the woods. I have used these for the past 3-4 years while deer and pig hunting and they work great. Very cost effective and have a noise cut off built into them and they will enhance your hearing while using them.

http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_33366_-1__?N=85400282&Ntt=hearing&Ntk=All

[Alaskapopo]

I have run pigs and they look cool but outside of their intended mission they are not that great.

pat

[GorillaTactical]

2:26 of this video might help in some way. I helped produce it about 8 months ago.

[GorillaTactical]

Just to clarify one thing said in the video; when Aryan says that the KX3 reduces muzzle climb, he is talking primarily about the weight added to the end of the muzzle, not about the impulse of recoil.

(tried to edit this into my first post but couldn't)

[MattYvip]

I have one on a 13.7 inch barrel, I've never tried it on a 16, and it seems to keep the muzzel down. It feels like it directs all the recoil straight down the gun into the shoulder as opposed to that 1 to 2 o'clock rise. I used it in one 3 gun match and didn't have any problems and I have several thousand rounds through it in training, hog hunting and on the range plinking and I've never had a complaint. It seems to be easier on the ears than other comps/breaks/flash suppressors. Hope that helps.