Lee Bell

I ordered mine for .45, so I can't comment on what happens if you order it for a small primer caliber. I will, however, comment on a couple of things you might want to know: 1. Get Brians "as it should be" accessory package. I may not have the name quite right, but you'll find it if you look. Each of several things included are worth the total price by themselves. 2. Get extra pickup tubes for both large and small primers. 3. As someone else recommended, get a flip tray. 4. If/when you convert from large to small primer or back, remember that there are two parts that get changed. The pickup/slide that gets changed is obvious. The different inner diameter tube inside the visible primer tube is not so obvious. It gets changed too. You can tell the primer tube from a pickup tube by the different end cap style and color. When you get ready to load, make sure, real sure, that you seat the primers completely. The only significant mistake I made with my 550B was not seating the primers. When you get your first failure to fire, you'll know you've done the same. I still find an occasional round from my first (about 6 months ago) reload rounds. I'm shooting them for practice, not in matches, as fast as I can. Lee

Any explanations or advice welcome – no liability, I’m just looking for someone to help reduce my confusion. It does not seem, to me, that everyone can be right and, when names in the industry don’t agree by this much, I get nervous. I’m loading new Starline brass with Winchester 240 grain JHP bullets for hunting. I’m using Winchester WLP primers. I’ve already loaded to what Alliant says is maximum for 2400 and Blue Dot and fired 6 rounds of each through my chronograph. I also fired 6 rounds of factory PMC 240 grain JHPs through the chronograph. I understand MV in the manuals is based on their specific components and test barrel, but some of this information is just too different for me to believe everyone is right. You’ll see what I mean in a minute. For 2400, Alliant says max is 18.7 grains for 1,440 fps. Speer says the max is 21 grains for 1,434 fps. Lyman says the max is 19.5. grains for 1,179 fps. My test rounds, with 18.7 grains, clocked an average 1,294 fps. I have a bit of trouble believing that Alliant, that makes the powder says 18.7 is the max while both Speer and Lyman show something significantly higher. I have even more trouble understanding how 21 grains could give no higher MV for Speer than 18.7 gave for Alliant or how 19.5 grains could give more than 200 fps less for Lyman than 18.7 did for Alliant and for me. It does not seem that everyone can be right. For Blue Dot, Alliant shows a max of 14.4 grains for 1,380 fps. Speer shows a max of 13.7, for 1,285 fps. Lyman is way off the others, showing a starting load of 14.4 grains, the same as Alliant’s max load, at 960 fps and a max of 16 grains for only 1,160 fps. My test loads of 14.4 grains of Blue Dot gave me a MV of 1,296. Again, it does not seem that everyone can be right. The factory PMC rounds, which set the standard I hope to match, gave me an average MV of 1,677 fps out of my Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 magnum. I paid good money for the most current reloading manuals from Speer and Lyman. About now, I’m wondering why. Neither seems to make sense relative to what Alliant says about their own powder or the actual results I got using Alliant’s recommendations. Obviously some combination of components are safe at close to the 1,677 fps PMC, but, without knowing what the specific components are, I’m more than a little reluctant to push my luck that far. Any thoughts, suggestions, etc.? Lee

Trail Boss powder takes care of the detonation issue nicely.

Different Lee, but hopefully, one with an answer you can use. Any more belling than is absolutely necessary is too much. You're shooting for (pun intended) just enough to allow you to place a bullet on the case and have it stay there. When you have it right, visually, you can just barely see that there's any bell at all. I had problems with the powder funnel sticking in some of my cases. I tried rubbing a very little bit of case lube on the powder funnel. That worked for no more than a few rounds. It also risked contaminating the powder. My next guess was that I was belling the cases too far. I reduced the bell to the point that it was hard to balance bullets on them for seating without any noticable reduction in sticking. Finally, I resorted to what we all hate to do. I read the manual. It mentioned that new brass sometimes sticks and recommended the brass be cleaned before use. As it happens, I've not loaded any of the brass that gave me problems, Starline .45, since finding Dillon's answer. I'm loading .44 magnums at the moment, this time with new, but cleaned Starline brass. So far, I have not experienced sticking problems. Lee

You're still very lucky. My Dillon 550 B came with two inserts for the primer tube. One is for small primers, the other for large. The outside diameter of each is the same, but hte inside diameters are different. These are not pickup tubes and will have a different color and shape end on one end and nothing on the other. Assuming your 650 is similar, my best guess is that you have the wrong insert in the primer tube. The manual for Dillon presses is quite clear on the point of forcing primers. Apparently, you missed that point. You're not the first and probably won't be the last. I made a mistake similar, but less dangerous than yours. I started loading small with large pistol primers. As I recall, the correct insert was in the primer tube when I received the press. On the other hand, I may have put the right one in and forgot doing it. At any rate, when I changed over to small pistol primers, I remembered to change the pickup bar, but did not realize I needed to change the tube insert as well. In my case, the only problem was that primers occasionally turned up side down. Annoying, but after the first time, I watched. Eventually, it annoyed me enough that I called Dillon. You may assume I felt a little silly. Glad you're OK. Lee

Question/informtion for the topic. When I first started cleaning brass, I used walnut media. I still do for particularly dirty brass. While this media cleaned the brass, it left it with a soft finish rather than a shiny one. I had heard that corn cob media would give me a brighter shine. Somewhere on his site, Brian says that he does not sell the corn cob media because it's cheap to buy from the local feed or pet store and expensive to ship. Taking his advice, which has always been good, I picked up a 25 lb bag of Sunshine Cob, 1/4" (I didn't see the size before starting this message) Avian & Small Animal Bedding for less than I could have bought 10 lbs for on line. The stuff does what I wanted with only one problem. It tends to stick in the primer pocket of my .44 magnum rounds. That's the information. Here are the questions. Is there a finer grade of the same stuff, available for a comparable price savings? If so, what should I be asking for? Would putting the stuff I have through a meat grinder give me something that would work as well without getting stuck in the primer pockets? Finally, I feed dried corn to squirrels. Has anyone tried using a meat grinder to make their own media out of the cobs left behind? I kind of like the idea of making use of something that, otherwise, goes in the trash. Lee I know this is a silly question by the fact that you say you do this, but does everyone agree tht it's safe to vibrate loaded rounds? Typically, I clean all my brass, including the new stuff. Dillon's manual mentions that new brass sometimes sticks on the belling funnel and suggests cleaning as a solution. So far, so good. On most pistol cartriges, I don't lube before sizing. I've found, however, that dry .44 cases are hard enough to size to make lube worth the time and effort. So far, I've been lubing, sizing and decapping, and then cleaning the brass again before priming and loading. If it's safe to clean brass after loading, I can speed the process up considerably by leaving the lube on the cases until they're completely reloaded. Lee

Wow, am I glad I saw this thread. I had no problem with smaller charges, but ran into very similar problems when I started loading .44 magnums. When light loading them for range use with IMR Trail Boss, everything was fine. When I tried full house rounds with 2400, I got powder everywhere, exactly as described in this thread. I gave up on 2400 and tried Blue Dot and could not get the powder measure on my 550B to throw a consistent charge. I wanted 14.4 grains, I got everything from 14.0 to 15. So, for the 100 rounds I planned to use as a test, I measured each one. That's OK for a test, but not OK for production. I usually keep somewhere between 500 and 1,000 rounds of everything I shoot. That's more measuring than I care for. Like others, I checked the book and confirmed that I was using the right charge bar and was getting ready to call Dillon to see what they had to say. At least now, I have something else to try . On a related side note, I didn't see any thing in the manual for this press on installing the large charge bar. The small one is easy to remove, but it is not immediately obvious how to install the large one. Getting the white squre in the slot is the issue. Do I have to remove the pivot bolt to do this or is there something easy I've not noticed? Lee

Great. I came up with squash.

I can't believe something so simple is so hard to find. I'm looking for information on standard target sizes. Specifically, I'm looking for information on the size of the X and 10 rings on an official NRA 50 yard small bore rifle target. Anyone have the information handy? Better yet, anyone have a good on line source for the same information relative to other targets? Lee

I've been loading .45s over the last few months and seem to be having some failure to fire problems. The first time it happened, I assumed that I had loaded a case without replacing the primer. Since then, I've watched pretty carefully to make sure I haven't repeated the mistake. This afternoon, I had three more failures. For each one, I pulled the bullet and confirmed there was powder in the case. I looked to see that the flash hole was not clogged and noticed that the portion of the primer that was visible was shiny. That seemed odd, so I put a primed case, no powder or bullet, in the pistol and fired the primer. The results were definitely not shiny. I then put the unfired cases back in my pistol and dropped the hammer on them about a half dozen times each. There was nothing light about the strikes. None of them went off. I then removed the primers and confirmed that they had never fired. I purchased 5,000 Federal 150 primers (blue box) from Powder Valley, Inc. I used about 1,000 of them on my 45s, 10mms, or both. I also used about 150 Federal 150 primers given to me by a friend. They're older, but appeared in good shape. They're in the red box, which may help some of you figure out just how old they are. I think I used the older primers only on 10mm rounds, but I can't be sure. So much for the background. Now for the questions: 1. Do primers kept in a dry, cool environment, deteriorate and, if so, how long can they be stored before they are no longer considered reliable? 2. This evening, I went on Midway's website to check to make sure that the blue box is the current primer packaging. I noticed that Midway is out of stock on every Federal standard large pistol primer and, in each case, indicates that backorders are not OK. It appears that Midway will no longer be carrying these primers which, of course, makes me wonder if my problems are unusual, or part of a larger pattern. Anyone know anything I should/ Lee Bell

>Where I shoot pins I am competing against guys w/ lasers, red dots, and comps. >Although, the majority of the shooters there use regular Limited type guns. Personally, I don't see a lot of advantage to sophisticated sight devices for pin shooting. It seems to me that, if you can't point and shoot effectively, you're not going to be competitive no matter what you chose. Compensated pistols, however, are probably a significant advantage. >I'm mainly using my .45, I have used my 9mm before but it is far less forgiving. Interesting position. I've owned guns since I was 6, but only recently purchased my first .45. Last time I went pin shooting I took my 9mm Beretta 92-F and my Colt Delta Elite. I did exceptionally well with the Beretta, good enough to have at least placed had I entered the competition. The pin placement advantage together with a pistol that fits me like a glove, had a lot to do with it. I wasn't worth a damn with the 10mm. My wife gave it a try, usign my 92-F. She went through a good half a dozen high capacity magazines and still had pins on the table. I actually started loading additional magazines for her. She gave up before getting to them. >No fee for shooting the pin matches, but not trophies either. Just bragging rights. Shoot >10 frames just like in real bowling. The range I used to shoot pins at charged only a range fee for those that just wanted to enjoy the sport. The collected money from those that wished to complete. >yeah, I saw a documentary on that FBI shootout. Some of the agents were using 6 > shot .38 revolvers. That was the standard of the time. They were in a very bad position when faced with people using semi automatic and automatic weapons. As I recall, my father had only recently retired from the FBI in Miami. He knew several of the Agents that died that day. Because the Bureau always did such a good job of using overwhelming force rather than being overwhelmed with it, we tended to forget just how serious the downside could be. >A shame about the 10mm and the gov't. Maybe that's why it was called the Delta Elite. >Maybe such a powerful caliber should only be used by departments that have the budget >for all that training and ammo to get their "employees" proficient w/ that platform and >remain at a proficient level. Personally, I favor using the right tool for the job. A handgun is most useful because it is easy to carry and quick to deploy. Anything a .45 or a .40 won't handle probably won't be handled much better with a more powerful handgun. When a shotgun or a rifle is the better tool, use the shotgun or rifle. >Maybe over-penetration wouldn't be such a problem now because JHP technology has >gotten so much better in the past 10 to 15 years. My problem with the 10mm has more to do with felt recoil than penatration. I can probably shoot my .40 accurately two times and my 9mm as much as three or four times for every single accurate shot from a full power 10mm. >Do you reload your own 10mm ammo, Lee? Not yet. I started reloading with a Lee hand loader around 30 years ago. I still have the loader and some of my rounds. My sporterized 1909 Mauser 30-06 really likes Remington Core Lock bullets, CCI primers and whatever the powder charge the scoop included in the kit yields. I tried handloading .357 with a similar kit only to find that it didn't do a very good job and that, while I was loading better rounds, I could buy factory target ammunition for about the same price and someone else's reloads for noticably less. Over the years, I've loaded a ton of skeet and trap loads. I am just now getting around to trying pistol reloading again. You might say I'm an almost reloader. Some of the recently purchased tools and supplies will arrive tomorrow. My Dillon 550 press and primers are scheduled to arrive on Thursday. I'll start loading for my .45 first and, before long, add the ability to load 10mm and .40. Lee

For the goverrnment, it's a no win situation. They went to the 10mm shortly after a Miami shootout where the bad guys shot the crap out of the government agents. They needed a round that with better penetration and better stopping power. The 10mm seemed like the answer. Problem is, when you're not shooting through car doors, the same round tended to penetrate the target and stop the innocent bystander behind. Not a good thing. As noted, the scaled down load isn't noticably better than the .40, which is what I carry these days. I love my stainless Delta Elite, but just like the government I work for, find a full power round makes it too much gun for effective self defense. Aside from the penetration issue, it has too much recoil for my comfort. It rotates too far off target for too long. By the time I'm back on target, I could have put sent a dozen 9mm or a couple .40 rounds accurately on their way. I've shot pins with the Delta Elite. Mine's bone stock. The guys with the modified .45s kicked my butt . . . thoroughly and convincingly. I saved face with my Beretta 92-F. Lee

Josey Wales wrote: > Read up on your selection of Which Dillon that our host provides. Thanks. Good advice already taken. That's the first place I went on this site and the way I found this forum. The selection contained enough information to make me seriously question my original decision to go with the 650, but not quite enough to make me certain that the 550 is a better option for me. Understanding the pros and cons of a 5 hole tool head, which relates directly to the issue of using a factory crimp die, and difference in how easy it is to change calibers in the two presses mentioned by other posters, are key issues in my decision. The difference in cost between the two options is not as much of an issue as the hassel making a bad decision will involve, particularly since my wife will be buying whatever I chose for me. It would certainly be easier if I could stop into my local gun shop and give each of the units a try. Unfortunately, that does not seem to be an option. Lee

I truly hate it when, after having spent countless hours researching a purchase, deciding on a product, listing everything I'll want first and what I will want later and convincing my wife that it's what I really want for my birthday, someone comes along and, changes my mind. That's what seems to be happening here. I have limited reloading experience. I loaded 30-06 with one of the Lee hand loaders, the one that requires you use a mallet to drive a casing into the neck resizer. I tried the same model for .357 and gave up almost immediately. I think I filled the unit with lead and turned it into a counter weight for one of my bows. I've been loading Active shot shells with a MEC press for, well, for longer than I chose to admit. Largely because the rounds I want for my 10mm are very hard to come by and hidiously expensive and because the purchase of a Glock .40 S&W and an H&K USP .45 recently increased my ammunition costs, I started thinking of reloading. It doesn't hurt that my wife is looking for something to get me for my birthday. I had pretty much settled on the Dillong XL650 without any of the upgrades. I'm not likely to ever need it's high volume capacity, but liked the 5 position head. While it obviously does not compare to the automatic case feed option, the ability to load a few cases in a tube that would load them into the plate automatically was a nice touch. Obviously, auto indexing has an appeal, but perhaps only because I'm easily sold on gadgets. When I started looking to see if there was a price break available, I found this forum. Lucky me . . . I suppose 8^) At any rate, I have a few questions if you folks have a few minutes to help out a relatively new reloader: 1. My interest in the 5 position reloader relates specifically to the Lee factory crimp die. It sounds like a good idea for someone shooting autoloading pistols. Then again, Dillon doesn't think much of it. The question, is it worth it and do I need a five station head to use it or can I/should I replace the standard crimping die with the factory crimp die? 2. Why is it such a bad idea to get the XL650 without the electric case loader? Isn't the ability to load a few cases into the tube manually good enough for someone purchasing the press for the 5 position head and auto indexing (assumes there are valid reasons to have them). 3. It has been mentioned that it's easier to change calibers in the 550B than in the 650. That's a major issue for someone that shoots and will reload .38/.357, .40/10mm, 9 mm, .45 ACP and .44 magnum (and probably some rifle calibers later). Would someone take the time to explain. As a final note, perhaps adding insult to injury, I need data fast. My birthday is the 18th of this month. Either way, I'm relatively sure to direct my wife to Brian's site for the purchase. It's the easiest way to get what I need all in one shot. The only question now is which package to suggest she order. Lee Bell