IVC
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Posts posted by IVC
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5 hours ago, DKorn said:
Here’s one to ponder - what call would you make if a shooter moves to a position with 4 closely spaced paper targets and fires 6 shots? Let’s say that due to the close spacing, you are unable to tell from the angle of the shooter’s body or gun which target is being engaged on any given shot. I know what I would say but I’d like to hear what others would do.
He shot at at least one shot at each target unless I can positively determine he didn't, so no FTSA (one exception below).
The break goes to the shooter and the FTSA is not there to play games about a close miss, no hits on paper or alike. It's there to penalize forgetting targets or not engaging them. If he fires 3 shots at a 4-target array, then he does get at least one FTSA, possibly two if he ran dry. Otherwise there is no point in trying to play games about which target he shot *unless* it was something obvious, e.g., he shot at three targets, ran dry, decided to end COF. Then it is clear that he didn't engage the last target.
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There is no rule for the "timing" of FTSA procedural penalty, so the RO can call it at any time until the scoring is complete.
Normally, a good RO will notice that some targets weren't engaged and will point it to the shooter after the "Range is Clear" so the shooter is aware of what's coming, but this is not necessary. The RO can call it while scoring, or at the end. Above posts have some good examples and reasoning for different timing.
If the RO is going off of two mikes to determine FTSA and to automatically add the procedural, then he is wrong. The shooter might not be able to prove it, but the RO is still wrong. A FTSA is a procedural that the RO has to see, not deduce, especially not from two mikes since that does not imply a FTSA. My guess is that this RO simply doesn't know better, not that he is playing a game of "his word against shooter's word."
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On 7/27/2020 at 9:39 AM, IHAVEGAS said:
I think the overwhelming majority know they will never be in the top 20, and really do not care
Just to make it clear...
I have NEVER been a REAL "top 20," whether it's classification or Nationals. The "top 20" USPSA list is per class, so it lists top 20 "D" class shooters, top 20 "C" class shooters, and so on. You end up on the list by blowing your classifier and instead of moving to the next class up, you end up a percent or three below the threshold, so you end up being a "top 20 [your current class] shooter" instead of being the bottom of the next class up.
That's why it's funny to show it to the non-shooting friend(s) and impress them about being on a list, while at the same time your classification is below everyone in the next class. Of course, I always tell them what the trick is - if I'm going to lie, I'm going to lie about the size of my d!@#k, like everyone else, not something as obvious as the list of percentages...
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2 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:
We can agree to disagree here. I think the overwhelming majority know they will never be in the top 20, and really do not care, but it is fun to attempt your personal best against people with the same skill level.
Fair point.
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Just now, SGT_Schultz said:
I can't agree about the gender separation. I am being constantly told that men and women are equals.
Sarcasm aside, there are sports where men and women compete alongside and where age doesn't matter. Equestrian competition is one. Racing (vehicle) is another. However, most sports are not in that category no matter what the PC police claims...
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On 7/25/2020 at 5:35 PM, Dranoel said:
Not really. Once you get used to the dot, you develop a sort of different "mode" of shooting. Much like when I was doing a lot of revolver shooting and taking my revolvers and pistols to the range. Pick up a revolver and you go into revolver mode. Pick up a 1911 and you go into pistol mode. Now it Dot mode and Iron mode.
^^^ Worth emphasizing.
And it's not just about irons vs. dot, but also about different triggers, different gear, different weight distribution of a gun and many other nuances of various divisions. In the end, once you have practiced enough to become proficient with different setups, it seamlessly carries over across divisions. I've never seen people who can shoot one gun but cannot shoot another, or who are fast with just one type of gun, or who are accurate only with some guns... Well, maybe the first time they pick it up, but the skill quickly transfers to the new setup and then it remains.
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2 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:
Classes - handicaps - divisions for young and old , man or woman- etc, greatly add to the enjoyment of the masses. It is fun to try and win "x" class with a good performance and most of us have enjoyed watching young folks progress and take a lot of pride from winning B class at a match or whatever.
Separation based on gender and age is different and it makes sense in sports that depend on physical strength and agility, but I'll maintain that the separation based on "skill level" is meaningless because the very concept of winning is about being better than the class one is winning against, which would make winning either sandbagging (intentional) or competing in the wrong class (time to move up).
Parity is important in team sports where neither party will enjoy the game if there is a large skill mismatch, but USPSA is an individual sport without an opponent so the final ranking is simply the ordering of performance of each competitor. You can pick and choose which competitors to "count" as beating you, but you can't change the ranking...
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On 7/24/2020 at 1:52 PM, dwzuspsa said:
Amazing....which one of you guys started out at GM....In 35 years of shooting I have never seen anyone new to the sport start out at GM...almost Biblical!
You start at the bottom and work yourself up, but the times and accuracy you're looking to reach are pretty universal and are set by the top shooters. The same goes for your performance in the match. Your percent is what it is.
If you get a kick from beating a buddy, that's fine. If you get a kick from beating guys who are worse shooters than you, that's fine too. Just look at those who finish below you and have a sense of accomplishment that you beat them. Nothing wrong with analyzing your match results. In fact, you should always analyze them because you can learn what your personal low hanging fruit is, then beat more guys the next time.
However, it's also okay to look at the top and enjoy sneaking up on them. I am lucky that I shoot in an area with a lot of good shooters, where you never get this false sense of complacency by winning local matches. The guys who win local matches here do well in majors, so competing against them is a blessing, not a curse. As I catch up with them, I know exactly where I am as a shooter. That's what many of us enjoy much more - catching up the good guys, not beating those who are below us (don't practice, too new, worry about winning classes, etc.).
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The only thing I would add is do NOT load 11 rounds in your first magazine, just get used to having a separate magazine from which you load the initial round. Everything on the belt should be exactly 10 rounds.
There are unloaded starts that can result in the bump to Open if you start the COF with the 11 rounds...
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4 hours ago, jmac2112 said:
...where I can shoot pretty accurately if I take my time and don't fight the recoil at all.
That is a very good observation so you're on the right track in analyzing your shooting - not fighting the recoil and using your grip and stance to return the gun consistently to where it started is arguably the most important skill to master after the trigger pull itself.
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Reference points. You have to find spots and areas that give you visual or tactile confirmation that the gun is mounted or that it is moving in the correct way. Other than that, it's like Carnegie Hall...
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3 hours ago, dwzuspsa said:
Really ladies and gentlemen...this is not about the prize table-more like recognizing the top finishers in the classes in USPSA. With the niik systems and the computers we have we can tighten up the classifier system and have National Champions GM-D. I have worked and been to numerous Nationals starting in D class and going up thru A class. Each time I tried to acheive to the best of my ability and sometimes came in top of my class. Make fun all you want but I think in my old age this would put a different look for the Nationals....we all pay the same USPSA dues.
It's not about making fun, it's about recognizing what it is - not much.
I've been on the Top 20 list on and off. In fact, I'm on it right now in at least one Steel Challenge division, something I don't even practice, but just shot for fun 2-3 times because there is a club that runs the official stages. The only good that came out of being on this list was to impress a non-shooting friend. It lasted for about 10 minutes, then I explained what it really meant and the enthusiasm was gone. I wasn't this "one of the top shooters in the nation" after all... That's the problem with the concept of classes as anything but a good monitor of one's own progress or a quick way to get a rough idea about the level of a shooter you haven't seen shoot before. (Once you see someone shoot you pretty much know what level they are.)
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2 hours ago, davsco said:
one local match charges everyone an extra $10 and gives that back to whomever helps and stays until everything is stowed away.
Our local matches have a crew that gets a share of the entry fees and they shoot for free. Anyone can apply and get on that crew, but those who are not on it don't have to stay and tear the stages down. It's much faster and better this way because we have a very large number of shooters and having to stay after we're done would be quite unpredictable for any planing for the rest of the day. Also, nobody is being taken advantage of (or feels like it) because the stage setters are getting something back for the effort.
(They do some additional extra stuff which is highly appreciated, but that's different type of volunteering; many are on the BOD for the club and alike...)
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9 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:
I just googled it, does it really work better then regular loctite? My Dots keep coming loose on my sigs. I finally ended up using red loctite where I could which I really didn't want to do. If that stuff works as advertised that would be way better.
One Loctite that is often overlooked is the Purple - it's more of a "gum it up" type that is used a lot in Revo division to hold various screws that need to be adjusted from time to time. With Blue, if you move it, it breaks the seal and becomes useless. With Purple, it holds it in place and doesn't break.
Any part that vibrates or takes a lot of abuse and has a potential to break the seal of the Blue is a good candidate for Purple.
Just a thought...
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As for canting, there are again different schools of thought (I know you didn't ask, but in case you are also looking into that aspect of shooting).
I used to do canting as a more natural position, but have switched to straight up-down some time ago. Canting works, but the recoil control wasn't consistent, even if it felt better - the sights recoiling back diagonally end up in strange relationship to the A zone on the target and correction is not natural as up-down on the gun moves it diagonally on the target. So, for anything that is even remotely further out, straight sights work better for me. This also goes for hard targets (I practice regularly on 50+ yard steel SHO/WHO, mostly as a fun way to finish the last few rounds before going home; nothing too organized, but gives me a good gauge).
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There really isn't a rule about thumb placement (or for the most aspects of the technique, for that matter). You need to be goal-oriented and try different things while observing the correct metrics.
When shooting SHO/WHO your goal is the same as when shooting free style - first, you want to be able to press the trigger while maintaining acceptable sight picture; then, you want to be able to do it faster than just the "bullseye press"; after your trigger pull is sorted out, you want to control the recoil for follow up shots and transitions. There really isn't much more to it than that. As you move through the requirements, you will notice that your grip has effect on the outcome. Slow press is all about separating trigger finger motion from the rest of the hand. Fast trigger pull adds the grip into consideration, where the grip has to keep the gun steady enough through the pull, not merely separate the trigger finger muscles. Finally, recoil control will bring additional issues such as body positioning, what to do with your non-shooting arm, whether to cant the sights, etc.
My personal style (and you should by no means accept it as-is) is different between Revolver and Limited. In Revolver, I put the thumb atop of the grip and let it follow the natural shape of the grip, which ends up pointing towards the trigger. It provides me more stability during the long trigger pull and that's what I need for Revolver. In Limited, shooting a 2011, I keep the thumb pointing loosely up and forward, not really touching anything EXCEPT in the webbing of the hand, where I use the lower part of the thumb to put pressure on the beaver tail (sideways force, feels like trying to pinch the beaver tail with my palm and the webbing). This gives me very good stability of the gun and allows the trigger finger to work faster without moving the gun.
If I try to reverse the grip and hold the semi auto with a thumb locked down and revolver with the thumb up I end up with less accuracy with semi-auto because the trigger finger is not completely separated from the thumb and with slower and inconsistent trigger pull on a revolver because I don't have enough support to counter the trigger pull.
That's just my 2c, you will have to experiment with different setups and find out what gives you the best results. Don't just go by the feel, throw in a timer and observe what, and more importantly why, gives you the best combination of accuracy and follow up shots.
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1 hour ago, SGT_Schultz said:
That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a P/CO mag limit closer to what comes from the factory.
CO already has length-based limit, nothing wrong with that. It's a division that has a life of its own and I wouldn't be surprised to see lights allowed soon. I don't have a preference either way.
Production should stay the way it is, with the low cap limit. It's the gateway into the sport for those who already have a gun and want to try out the sport. I cannot count the number of people who talked to me about shooting USPSA, but were intimidated by all the gear and rules. You have to admit, it's daunting for someone who's never shot an action sport before. I tell them to just bring what they have and that they will be fine. When they see others shooting the same guns as theirs, they relax and feel good about the match. In this case, perception is everything and it's the perception of the outsiders looking in, not the perception of the insiders.
Imagine going to a, say, precision pistol match, where they have odd-looking guns with shooting boxes on the bench, mounted spotting scopes, odd calibers... If you didn't know what it's all about, wouldn't you want to see how bad you suck by comparing to someone shooting the same gear? At least you feel you're being slaughtered in a fair fight. Just my 2c.
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What they said about DA/SA - you get the SA trigger after the initial pull. But, there is also a trend in DAO strikers to make them essentially SA - since striker is preloaded with the racking of the slide, the trigger can be as short and as light as it needs to be. Just preload it more, to the point where the striker has almost enough energy to ignite the primer without additional input from the trigger. Maybe even beyond that.
It's going to be interesting to see how light/short the competition stirker triggers will go and whether it will take away the market share from the DA/SA.
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4 hours ago, motosapiens said:
when I see someone shooting L10 around here, it is generally for 1 of 2 reasons:
1. shooter likes shooting a 1911, but realizes that most stage designers are making stages that are stupid and annoying for 8 round guns.
2. shooter carries a 40 or 45 double-stack auto at work and wants to shoot his duty gun.
You live in a free state, so if you add a third point, legal magazine restrictions, that about covers L10.
This thread descended into division wars, so we just need to bring in STI vs. SVI, 9 mm vs. 45 ACP and USPSA vs. IDPA and we just about violated all the forum rules. Oh, and we can add a few political statements to spice it up...
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3 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:
There's also no reason any more for production to have a national 10 round limit either.
And we should get rid of that 140/170 artificial limit. PCC magazines for everyone! Yay! Also, why even have divisions? Everyone shoots what they brung (sic)...
/sarcasm
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3 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:
Exactly. The ban states and Canada run everything at 10 rounds without needing special divisions to tell them so.
The ban states most certainly don't run everything at the ban-limit. Old magazines are grandfathered in (let's not get too much into this in a public forum, though).
L10 works well for new shooters. It's what I shot until I found a way to legally have the standard magazines. I live in CA, the second dumbest gun state...
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6 minutes ago, matteekay said:
400 loaded moons would be 2400 - 3200 loaded rounds...
Was thinking whether you were going down that road
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1 hour ago, PatJones said:
..., so I check each moon clip as it goes onto my belt.
Same here. Every clip goes into the checker, then straight on the belt, even though all clips went through the checker when I loaded them at home.
It's a routine that works well if I have to reload any clips at the range so I never have to think about whether the clip has been pre-checked or not. Simplifies the process.
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6 minutes ago, matteekay said:
Jeez, and I thought *I* missed a lot...
Heh, but in reality you don't shoot the clips empty and you can have reshoots, so the number of rounds you should have in the clips is always quite a bit higher than the number of rounds required on the stage. (I know you know, but it's for the OP who is looking for tips...)
Failure to engage
in USPSA/IPSC Rules
Posted
Are you an MD? Hopefully he doesn't become a patient after the squib...