2011BLDR
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Posts posted by 2011BLDR
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Good to know of the issues with Burris, keep in mind this class of optics saw 7 years of intensive development in order to satisfy a SOCOM requirement for a MRDSs, the Insight/L3 and Trijicon RMR both meet Mil standards for combat optics in:
· Drop Test
· Battery life
· Salt Spray
· Diveability to 66 Feet
Leupold was awarded a SOCOM contract for a optics package that included a MRD for SOCOM last year, I see the same features needed to pass Mil Standards in the Delta Point II as in the Insight/L3 and Trijicon MRD's.
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2011BLDR
Do you know much about this contract?
I haven't seen any of these floating around- yet...
Initial Award is split between Leupold and Aimpoint, as stated the original Delta point couldn’t pass Mil Standards (drivable to 66’). Delta point II looks to be addressing the shortfalls. Search ECOS-O, Link:
http://blogs.militarytimes.com/gearscout/2013/04/02/ecos-o-optic-contract-award/
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2011BLDR
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Over the years in .40 S&W limited I have used:
155gr
165gr
170gr
175gr
180gr
200gr
220gr
Skill level, gun weight, slide weight, powder and targeted power factor all influence what combo will work best for you. That skill level thing and having confidence in your setup is what counts not what everyone else says is best for them.
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2011BLDR
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Over the years I have used:
WAP (Silhouette)
WSF
540 (HS-6)
Green Dot
Vectan A1
Vectan BA9
N330
N340 (current favored)
WAP (Silhouette) and N340 are vary close in burn rate. N330, BA9 and 540 (HS-6) are also close to each other in burn rate.
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2011BLDR
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I've used no5 in the past in 9mm and I found it very dirty. Its possible that this isn't an issue at higher pressures for major.
It is worse in .40. so dirty I had to clean after 2 stages or the guns wouldn't run on the 3rd stage.That is a 180 Gr Moley @1.225 OAL.
In 9MM with a 147Gr moley i can go a whole match and not clean, however that is a 155PF load out of my 6" 9MM.
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2011BLDR
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If you neck down a .40 S & W case to 9MM it will not be a .357 SIG the neck will be too short. There were several .40 S & W necked down to 9MM open guns around in the late 90’s this wildcat predated the introduction of the .357 SIG. we had several of them being run in our area at the time. The pluses were free brass, lots of gas for the comp and way easy to make 175PF. The drawback was magazine capacity (25-26).
356TSW was 9X21.5mm
I still run .38SC in open I mark my brass and I get 90% back each match, I bought 4000 Armscor in 2002 or so and was recently down to around 2000 in my rotation so I grabbed a 2500 case of new this year. I personally like the flexibility a .38SC case gives me in powder choice, I am currently loading 9.9g of N105 due to powder shortages.
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2011BLDR
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For 38SC I have used:
3N37
N350
3N38
N105
3N37 burns hot, works as an all around (Limited and Open) for me just like WAP/ Silhouette was in the 90’s
N350 used it for years until I had a 4 LB jug chemically destabilize on me causing:
Erratic velocity
Erratic charge variations as the powder would clump up and stick in the powder funnel / charging bar area
Because of this, I rate it as my last choice for a powder now
3N38 great stuff equal to SP2 in my book
N105 so far I am liking this one. A bit of caution in loading is needed as @ 9.9G it is about a 70% case fill
Barrel length, bullet weight comp design and vent holes (popple vs. Hybrid) will ultimately drive what VV Powder will work best for you, or is it just a burn what you can find at this point?
I have N340 (Limited), 3N37 (all around) 3N38 (open) and N105 (open) all on hand right now and continue to buy whatever I can when I can find it, what I have is only 18 months of shooting matches, no room for practice with the currant availability.
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2011BLDR
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I built this in 02.
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I reshoot the 1 or 2 run and gun pistol stages that are all paper at my local club matches with the carbine as practice.
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N320 IN STOCK BULLETS.COM
Thanks, sight was not on my radar, I don't use N320 but they had N340 in 4LB jugs.
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2011BLDR
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I think everyone is taking whatever pistol powder they can find at this point. That is what happened to me I found:
6 LB N105
4LB 3N37
8LB 3N38
All “Open” powders, however I am down to 3LB of N340 for limited so I have been working on possible limited loads. The N105 did not work out in my 6” and my 5” is a brand new barrel that is usually within 10 FPS of the 6” so not worth looking at. I have a 3N37 load that is good to go still need to evaluate the 3N38 for Limited, just trying to keep shooting with what powder is available without having to go exclusively Open.
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I just tried this last month without any success. Looking at 10mm data and crossing that over to a long loaded .40 S&W for a 2011 platform, then looking at the 200gr .40 S&W data initially looked promising:
10MM:
180gr bullet
8.6 gr N105 = 1220 FPS
200 gr bullet
7.3 gr N105 = 1066 FPS
.40S&W:
200 gr bullet
7.6 gr N105 = 1053 FPS
Based on that data as a starting point (at 1.225” OAL) , I tried:
180gr bullet
7.3 gr N105 = velocities from low 700’sFPs to 920FPS
Bumped up to:
180gr bullet
7.8 gr N105 = velocities from high 700’s FPs to 987FPS
This powder looks to be incompatible with a reduced charge. You might find the spot where velocities settle down and become consistent however, that will be way over major ( see the 987FPS with 7.8gr). That was a 6" 2011 used for testing.
Fortunately, I do have a good .38SC load for my open pistols with this powder. .
Out
2011BLDR
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6” lightened slide,:bull barrel 5" guide rod and plug
17lb main
10lb recoil spring
Limcat XL firing pin
147 gr @ 155 PF
flat but quick cycling
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I have 2 open pistols with slide mounted Optics.
· The first one was done by SHPD (built around 1997-98) where the Optima weaver mount was trimmed down and screwed in to the slide retaining the locator points between the mount and optic to aid in not losing zero when changing batteries. I have changed batteries thousands of times and never lost Zero. This Optima was a replacement under warranty when the first lens became loose in the body, no issues since on this optic. However as the Fire Point described below the electronics is becoming tired I will be replacing it with a second Delta point sometime this year.
· The second one has the Arredondo double battery package that Arredondo milled the slide for this has locator points machined in to the slide. I have changed batteries thousands of times and never lost Zero on this set up either. This has had a Fire Point picked up on close out, no mechanical issues on this optic but the electronics were becoming tired; the dot is not as bright as it uses to be even with a double battery. I replaced it with a Delta point in 2010.
· I know of 5-6 other open pistols with slide mounted Optics built around the same time period of 1997 -2000 three with Dr Optics and the rest with Optima/ Jpoints that are all still working without any optics related issues.
So in 17 years and hundreds of thousands of rounds I “destroyed “ one sight and retired 2 for reticle brightness, that may just be a representation of the advances the manufactures are making in their electronics over the past 17 years.
I would not hesitate to use a Deltapoint, a L3 MRDS or a RMR on a defensive pistol. The L3 and the RMR both passed MILSTD testing in order to revive their NSN's, The Deltapoint 2 changes are targeted at passing the MILSTD testing.
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2011BLDR
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That was my thought too. Trying a 15 on Friday. I did measure o.a.l against a known good spring nd it's 1/2 inch short.
230 ball w.w.b was making it barf. Remington 185+p seemed to work much better oddly enough. Probably bullet shape, not slide velocity.
Is this a .45ACP?
the issue is with 230gr ball ammo?
if so it is a OAL lengith issue, factory 230gr .45ACP will run out to 1.260" most STI/SVI mags start to have feed issues at 1.240" OAL this is vary dependent on bullet profiles as to what length the issues can start at.. loung fat 230 bullet is slow couming up the mag tube and is starting the feed cycle nose low as compared to a 185 gr TC.
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2011BLDR
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Mounting ANY electronic sighting device on top of a slide is asking for failure, IMHO.
I have 2 open pistols with slide mounted Optics.
· The first one was done by SHPD (built around 1997-98) where the Optima weaver mount was trimmed down and screwed in to the slide retaining the locator points between the mount and optic to aid in not losing zero when changing batteries. I have changed batteries thousands of times and never lost Zero. This Optima was a replacement under warranty when the first lens became loose in the body, no issues since on this optic. However as the Fire Point described below the electronics is becoming tired I will be replacing it with a second Delta point sometime this year.
· The second one has the Arredondo double battery package that Arredondo milled the slide for this has locator points machined in to the slide. I have changed batteries thousands of times and never lost Zero on this set up either. This has had a Fire Point picked up on close out, no mechanical issues on this optic but the electronics were becoming tired; the dot is not as bright as it uses to be even with a double battery. I replaced it with a Delta point in 2010.
· I know of 5-6 other open pistols with slide mounted Optics built around the same time period of 1997 -2000 three with Dr Optics and the rest with Optima/ Jpoints that are all still working without any optics related issues.
So in 17 years and hundreds of thousands of rounds I “destroyed “ one sight and retired 2 for reticle brightness, that may just be a representation of the advances the manufactures are making in their electronics over the past 17 years. What exactly is your failure rate with slide mounted optics that your opinion is based on?
Out.
2011BLDR
Whoa, I do not have near the experience you have! Nor have I ever used a Dr. or Optima/Jpoints. I withdraw my opinion
My only experience is with Burris Fastfire's, I went through 4 of those in one year.
Good to know of the issues with Burris, keep in mind this class of optics saw 7 years of intensive development in order to satisfy a SOCOM requirement for a MRDS’s, the Insight/L3 and Trijicon RMR both meet Mil standards for combat optics in:
· Drop Test
· Battery life
· Salt Spray
· Diveability to 66 Feet
Leupold was awarded a SOCOM contract for a optics package that included a MRD for SOCOM last year, I see the same features needed to pass Mil Standards in the Delta Point II as in the Insight/L3 and Trijicon MRD's.
Out.
2011BLDR
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Mounting ANY electronic sighting device on top of a slide is asking for failure, IMHO.
I have 2 open pistols with slide mounted Optics.
· The first one was done by SHPD (built around 1997-98) where the Optima weaver mount was trimmed down and screwed in to the slide retaining the locator points between the mount and optic to aid in not losing zero when changing batteries. I have changed batteries thousands of times and never lost Zero. This Optima was a replacement under warranty when the first lens became loose in the body, no issues since on this optic. However as the Fire Point described below the electronics is becoming tired I will be replacing it with a second Delta point sometime this year.
· The second one has the Arredondo double battery package that Arredondo milled the slide for this has locator points machined in to the slide. I have changed batteries thousands of times and never lost Zero on this set up either. This has had a Fire Point picked up on close out, no mechanical issues on this optic but the electronics were becoming tired; the dot is not as bright as it uses to be even with a double battery. I replaced it with a Delta point in 2010.
· I know of 5-6 other open pistols with slide mounted Optics built around the same time period of 1997 -2000 three with Dr Optics and the rest with Optima/ Jpoints that are all still working without any optics related issues.
So in 17 years and hundreds of thousands of rounds I “destroyed “ one sight and retired 2 for reticle brightness, that may just be a representation of the advances the manufactures are making in their electronics over the past 17 years. What exactly is your failure rate with slide mounted optics that your opinion is based on?
Out.
2011BLDR
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first open gun :
TOY R US
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Primarily a limited shooter open is where I take a break.
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Actually, he 2011 platform was designed for 38 super. We have learned how to run them in other calibers:
.40 Load long 1.180-1.235
.45 Load shorter = under 1.235
9mm Use 1st generation SVI Magazines or deal with a lot of tuning / spacer/ feed timing issues related to STI magazines and 9mm
If you look at internal case volume variance in 9mm brass, add that all 9mm MAJOR loads are compressed = you should be sorting brass by head stamp and internal volume for 9 MAJOR. A safe load in a commercial case can be a grenade in a NATO spec case. If you are not sorting 9X19mm brass by head stamp and internal volume you are at risk for pressure issues and it will come to you sooner or later.
I chose to pick up my .38SC brass and buy replacements as needed instead of sorting 9X19mm brass by head stamp and internal volume.
I have:
2 ea open .38SC pistols
1 Limited .38SC pistol (5”) with a spare 9X19mm barrel
1 Limited 9X19mm pistol (6”) with a spare 4.25” top end for IDPA
All 15 1st generation SVI Magazines I have run 100% with either .38SC or 9X19mm in all my gun configerations.
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2011BLDR
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6" .40:
165 Montana Gold for major matches
180 Bear Creek local matches
Master limited
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Think about it this way a commander length slide running on an unmodified frame is no different than adding a shock buffer to government length pistol both shorten the cycle length.
And we've all heard of the issues shock buffs can cause!
Yes, all related to deterioration of the material not cycle length. We had a master limited shooter that ran double (yes 2 ea) CP buffers for years in his limited gun to shorten the cycle length. He just replaced them every other match not something I would do but it worked for him.
OP asked for input of a commander slide on a 2011 frame. I have one that works 100% for the last 10,000 rounds a STI Tactical Frame and a SVI commander length slide.
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Check the over travel stop in trigger is adjusted correctly, If not correct the half cock notch on the hammer can drag across the sear during operation slightly slowing down the hammer and causing light strikes.
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2011BLDR
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You will need to get a frame that is cut for the Commander length slide or have the one you get cut to work. The shoulder where the recoil spring guide rod sits in the frame is machined deeper on Commander frames to allow the shorter Commander slide to go back further. If you have a Govt. type frame you can compare it to your Commander frame and see the difference.
I have a 2011 in 9X19MM with a commander length slide running on an unmodified frame works 100% , it is a ramped Barrel and I use old style SVI magazines without any spacers. This pistol also has a 6” 9x19MM top end I use for 3 gun, steel and practice.
The increase in cycle length is only required for .45/ .38 Super length cartages 1.225” to 1.260 “ 9X19 is shorter at 1.125” and the lounger cycle length is not required. Think about it this way a commander length slide running on an unmodified frame is no different than adding a shock buffer to government length pistol both shorten the cycle length.
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I built a 6" 9mm for 3 gun, practice and steel only matches. I use 147-grain bullets at 1060 FPS a 155 PF. Factory NATO 124-grain ammo is 1250 FPS for a similar 155 PF in this gun. This keeps the slide speed similar to my 6” .40 but has a softer recoil impulse. I prefer the heavier loads for steel gives you a little insurance against a heavy calibration, less than perfect shot placement or wind without having to use full major PF loads, most of us would aim for a 170 PF in major as insurance.
I do not see the advantage of a sight tracker I owned one in the 1990’s for 2 years or so and have shot several of them since then.
The SV interchangeable breech face slides are great for rebuilding or repairing without needing a new slide. As for using one as a dual caliber gun set up it has major drawbacks, you need to zero the sights every time you change the gun back and forth. An additional consideration is the possibility of different wear patterns on the slide locking ribs between the two different barrels. A separate top end makes better sense to me.
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2011BLDR
Deltapoint part deux!
in Open Pistols
Posted
Arrendondo:
http://www.arredondoaccessories.com/category.cfm?cid=1002,2029&PID=hj11h2926cqdmj&GID=