Action Pistolero

Dan, I believe that you are right. The 1.12" X ring is for the indoor target. The 4" black X ring is what came out of the committee. After I talked to Dave at the Target Barn I started suggesting the scoring rings be black. I was pushing this to try to level the playing field. I realize that the scoring rings were meant to be invisible. As we all know this isn't the case in certain lighting conditions. I believe that IPSC targets are supposed to be the same way but only the first shooter sees them as they are meant to be. After that the pasters point to the center. Kevin

Dan, I have no idea where you heard about a black 8 ring but this is the first that I have heard of it. The proposal is to make the X ring black only. As I stated in an earlier post I spoke to Dave in June about any potential problems and he informed me of the same as you got from him. I believe the best way to do it is to have the rings printed in black although I am told that this will still require two operations therefore would increase the price of the target. In my opinion, this is a dead issue only because it will require some research from a certain party and I have no confidence that the research will be accomplished. Kevin

The Comfort Inn in Bluefield, VA has set aside 15 rooms in my name, Kevin Angstadt, at a rate of $62 per night for 1 to 4 people. Their number is 276-326-3688. They will only hold the rooms until Aug. 23rd. Be sure to mention my name to get the $62 rate. Be prepared to spell my last name for them! Kevin

The Triangle Sportsmens Club in Bluefield, VA. will be hosting the 2005 Hillbilly Cup Regional Championship on Sep. 24th and the 2005 Cardinal Cup VA. State Championship on Sep 25th. You don't have to be a member of the state association to shoot this match. Categories include Open, Metallic, Rimfire and Open Modified. Competitors may enter in 3 classes. There will be cash awards, plaques and a prize table. Prize table starts with the competitor firing the lowest score. Match programs and entry forms can be found at www.trianglesportsmensclub.org. Camping is available at the range. There is a Comfort Inn located in Bluefield just minutes from the range. There are others in Princeton, WV (I-77 exit 9) about 20 min. from range. Any questions send me an email. Hope to see you all there, Kevin

I wouldn't count on it. I think you'd get better results talking to a brick wall. We were told by a member of the committee that he would not go to the rules committee with anything less than 2 pounds. This was after the NRA lawyer explained to us that all we needed to do was set a baseline. A board member then brought up a motion to make that baseline at 1 pound. That was when the joker came up with his crap and we ended up at 2.

Grant, Then why not do away with the rings all together. At this point I don't think this will work out anyway. I talked to the guy at the Target Barn last night and he told me that any print marks on the target would have to be done in a separate operation. That means that you could not guarantee that the rings and the perfs would line up. He suggested a 4" black paster. It could then be shooters choice? Kevin

Dave, I'm assuming you answered your questions. If you need anything else I can try to help. Kevin

We had a match in Bluefield on Sat and tried out the black X ring. If you were looking at the results you would find that it didn't make a real difference in the scores. Just because the X ring is black doesn't mean that the shot will go there. The shooter still has to have the discipline to not fire the shot until the dot or front sight is in the spot. Back when the NRA seemed to be more concerned about participation than rule changes the president of a prominant shooting organization sent in an email to NRA stating that if they wanted to get the numbers up they needed to mark the center of the target. I'm paraphrasing here because I don't have the email in front of me. He seemed to think that if the X ring was marked shooters from other disciplines would be more willing to try it. The other thing that has bothered me since I started shooting the Cup in 2000 was that the Super Squad always got to shoot the events when the lighting had a real good chance of being good. I don't have anything against the shooters on that squad but I thought that I could eventually shoot well enough to qualify for those times. This is apparently not the case. For the last four years I have finished 21st, 31st, 17th and 20th. I have yet to shoot the mover at any other time than before noon. I pushed for this change to try to even the playing field as far as how the target appears to the shooter. As some of you are well aware I have seen this problem at numerous ranges besides Green Valley. Mike told me before I got to Winnamc to be sure to shoot the Barricade before late morning. At Liberty, MS the sun is always behind the targets and if you try to shoot early in the morning you may well be shooting throught the fog. San Antonio is not the best place to shoot in the morning. Lake Charles the lighting always seems to be good. I remember shooting the mover at Brookston through the shadows. At Topton the center of the target is your best guess on the Practical. The same goes for Bedford on a sunny day. I've stood 3 feet from the target looking for rings in Factoryville. At Bluefield and Hinton there are times when you can't see a thing. The point to all this that the playing field is not equal at all but one of the ranges that I've shot at. If you've ever shot the Advanced Military Pistol event you would know how pleasant it is to just shoot the target at 50 yards and not have to worry where center is. If you were to talk to the shooters that shot at Bluefield you would find that the reactions were positive. Some said it didn't seem to make a difference and others liked it. There is a Regional this Sat. in Berrien Springs, Michigan. I hope to see a few of you there. Kevin

I'll second that. Especially when it's the last one. Kevin

Steve, For once we seem to be on the same page. You're right. I'm the one that brought up the black x ring. I originally wanted a 1 or 2 inch dot. Then it grew to 4 inches to help out the Metallic guys. I just brought it up. There had been submissions to the comittee about it. I shot a match in Topton, PA on Sunday and we tried the black dot on the mover. Actually, we were playing with both a black and a white x ring. Doug's concern was that you wouldn't be able to see your hits on the target with it being black. It's surprising just how well you can see them. I didn't like the white. It seemed to blur out the whole middle of the target. We tried marking the perforations with a black marker. That didn't work very well. For those of you that don't like this idea, try it. You may just like it. Just because you can see the middle doesn't mean that you're automatically going to shoot a better score. Since it looks like we will be stuck with a 2 pound or better trigger pull we will need the time we used to find the target center to work the trigger. Brian has said many times to either mark the target so that you can see the rings or do away with the rings all together. I think marking the target is the better approach. Kevin

Dave, The meeting has to happen first. It starts at 9AM and is planned to last all day. I will call Alan tomorrow after the meeting and ask him to post the results. Kevin

Dave, Thanks for putting the poll up. It's short and to the point. The following paragraph is to cover my rear end. Big Brother is watching. I just want to make it clear that I, for one, will not quit shooting Action Pistol as we know it right now. I am not telling anyone to boycott NRA events. I am merely letting everyone know what is going on and asking them to voice their opinions. Hopefully this can be used to persuade some people to our side. Chuck, Doug is on the committee so he will be there next Sat. right in the thick of it. If this trigger pull thing does manage to get through it will not have any effect on any approved or registered match until Jan 1, 2006. That being said, there will be a Regional and Va State championship held in Bluefield, VA on Sep 24th and 25th. As some of the forum member already know, the range is quickly becoming one of the finer Action Pistol ranges in the Country. If you want the match bulletins let me know. Kevin

Jay, They say that they want to keep the match but then it seems as though they want to get rid of us. I've always been told that actions speak louder than words. You decide. As far as I know every match director that puts on an approved Action match got a poster. I don't know about any of the other disciplines. I get the impression that the heads of the disciplines don't talk to each other. Tom Fee was talking a good game. Let's see if he puts on a match sometime soon. Kevin

Dave, Unfortunately, the prone rule will stay as it is. The reason that they back tracked is because I insisted. Doug and I were able to convince them to leave the Barricade alone. Here's something to think about. What if we can shoot down this trigger pull rule but they come back and tell us that if it doesn't pass NRA will drop Action Pistol? What do we do then? I know what I would say but what do you all want to do? Somebody make a poll (I tried that once but couldn't make it work) with the above questions and I'll take the results with me. Get every Action shooter that you know to take the poll. Kevin

driver8m3, The matches are held in Hinton, WV, Bluefield and Bedford, VA. I had considered switching to a revolver to continue shooting NRA events. If this rule change goes through there will also be a minimum trigger pull for them as well. The standard practice is to check them in the single action mode and must lift a 2.5 pound weight. I don't know enough about revolvers to know how much this would increase the double action pull but unless the gun was converted to DAO I would think that it would be substantial. The one thing to remember is that as long as the shooter handles the pistol the way it should be there will be no AD's. By that I mean, draw the pistol from the holster, aquire the grip, present the pistol to the target, insert trigger finger in the trigger guard, depress thumb safety and fire the shot. If these procedures are not followed to the letter than an AD is going to happen no matter what the trigger weight is. In other words, keep the booger finger off the boom switch until the pistol is on target.

Mike, Thanks for that inspiring post. I just wish that I read it before last Thursday. I would blame in on lost mojo but it was more like the head up the rear syndrome. I was clean on the mover until the 25 yard line. Then all hell broke loose. The target seemed alot smaller than usual and on the last shot I lost it and threw a 5. I could deal with the 3 eights but that was a killer. Went on to the plates and had them all until the second run at 25. I thought I had it made and lost my concentration. Missed the 3rd plate. That left me with a 1895- 148x after I dropped 2 eights on the Practical. Good enough for 20th place but I should have done better. Maybe next year???????? Thanks to all those at Winamac that made it happen. I hope to see you all at Berrien Springs on the 25th. Kevin

Dave, Thanks for the pictures. I feel the same way as Mike. My wife likes it for some reason. Otherwise, I'd shave it off. Kevin

See how many show next year when they are measuring for 3.5 lb minimum trigger pull weight. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Amen to that. I told the Chairman that if the trigger pull rule went through there would be no registered or approved matches in Virginia in 2006. He then questioned my love of the sport. I never said that I would be no longer shooting Action Pistol.

I have an idea but I'm going to need your help. As most of you know there is an International Award given to the highest placing international competitor at Bianchi. I'd like to see that change to something like "The John Cameron Memorial International Award". John made such a tremendous impact on our sport and all of us that we need to do something. We need to discuss it at the shooters meeting and then I can get it added to the committee's agenda and get it done. What do you all think? Kevin

Steve, I'm sure you will do fine. I've been at it a little longer and finally made it all come together. Paying attention to what's going on in front of you helps tremendously. See you and John next week. Mike, Shooting a 1920 at Winamac is almost as hard shooting one at the Cup. Something there always seems to bite me in the rear. Is Rhino going to be there? Kevin

Shot an Action match in Bedford, VA. this past Saturday. Needless to say I'm tickled with the results. Shot both Metallic and Open. I've been shooting the Metallic gun since Jan. Metallic Practical 456-23x Barricade 466-34x Mover 462-20x Had a jam from hell and couldn't get the last shot off. Plates 410-41x needs alot of work 1794-118x This is the best score that I've had with this gun. The x count looks promising. Open Practical 480-35x Barricade 480-43x Mover 480-31x Plates 480-48x 1920-157x Yippeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the first time in three years that I cleaned all four. The x count wouldn't be good enough to win the Cup but it's still a 1920. I wouldn't care if I shot a 1920-48x at the Cup. It would still get me that plaque. Kevin

Mike, I'll be shooting two guns. Leroy will be shooting one. Last year at our State and Regional matches I offered the shooters a chance to enter with a second gun. The match fee was $60 and the second entry was $35. The match fee included a shirt, lunch and all he drinks that you could consume. I had Grant, from D-Sport, do the plaques like the one's at the Cup for the State match and had him fix up some plexi glass plaques like the one's for the individual event winners get at the Cup for the Regional. He did one hell of a job, as usual. Each shooter only got one lunch and one shirt so I saw no reason to charge the full match fee for the second gun. I told Rudy that I thought that the second entry fee at the Cup should be $75. He told me that he figured that $25 would cover the targets and the admin fees plus a few plaques. I wanted the prizes to more numerous, like guns, but it didn't work out that way. Kevin

Ryan, No offense to any other maker but the Gilmore shroud would be your best bet, in my opinion. I currently have four of them and sold Kimberkid the one off of my original Action gun. They use the Weigand pattern which uses 5 screws on each side. You can get them undrilled so that the gunsmith can match the holes already drilled in the frame from the scope mount that you are taking off. I can tell you from experience that this is a royal PITA. If you're lucky one or more of the holes will line up. I believe they normally sell for $250 at the Cup. That's $50 off the regular price. If you want one and can't find someone there to get you one I could get you one and get it to Randy. Kevin

As far as NRA Action Pistol goes, this rule change applies to all matches fired. That includes all approved matches, state and regional championships and the nationals. I don't know how you all handle things in NZ but we have to abide by NRA rules. NRA and IPSC are two different organizations. They both have their own set of rules. The committee on which I serve only governs NRA Action Pistol. Every shooting discipline in NRA's competitve shooting division has their own committee.

maui, As far as I know this only applies to NRA Action Pistol. Kevin