[Stoeger M3000 Scattergun?]

These are the photos I used to write our cnc program for porting the Stoegers. Many thanks to Patrick for posting them up! I don't think it can be done much cleaner than he did it here and if you have patience and a good selection of files/ abrasives, it CAN be duplicated by hand. Did I mention you need patience? I can't make money doing it by hand, so I have to tell the mill how to do it!

[glue/locite on barrel extenstion?]

Ah, misunderstood the question. Making more sense now

[update on taccom 22lr frankenupper]

The thing with the Golden bullets is that there ARE bad batches. Same with the Federal, and the Blazer. Any of the bulk-pack stuff is prone to bad batches. I always shoot a sample out of any brick I may use in a match, but if the match means anything, I just use good ammo. Assuming I can find some! Ironically, my Ruger MKII pistol will run about 98% reliability with ammo that runs 60-70% in my rifles. Can't explain that with any scientific reason. With the Remington stuff, I have had thousand-round days plinking digger squirrels with my 10/22 with maybe 5 duds, and other bricks I have thrown away after a couple of banana mags with 6 or 7 no-fires in a row. I think out of probably 5,000 rounds of CCI mini-mags I cannot remember a misfire. I am on my 3rd barrel on the 10/22 (receiver has almost 300,000 rounds through it!) and most have been Golden bullets. I have notice a major quality loss over the last 4 years or so. Slaughtering Klamath squeaks gives you plenty of ammo evaluation time, as we usually burned about 4-5 bricks per guy per weekend all spring long back when we could buy as much as we wanted. Now I feel like I'm hoarding nuts for the winter

[glue/locite on barrel extenstion?]

Loctite will greatly increase the chance that you will tweak the receiver if you ever have to take it back apart. A good anti-seize is the way to go.

[Stoeger M3000 Scattergun?]

Gunparts has pretty poor support for a lot of current guns. I would try contacting Stoeger directly, although they may only ship it to a gunsmith. They will probably try to talk you into sending the whole gun in so they can make sure nothing else is damaged. Depending on their turnaround that might actually be the fastest way. Had a customer send a Mossy JM back to the factory, he had it back in his hands 12 days later.

[Need advise on tuning an AR with jp low mass.]

Barrels in Stainless are about the same hardness as Chrome-moly, unless we are talking black star barrels. Should be about mid 30s Rockwell for a 416ss barrel. Use tapping fluid and a little less spindle speed than for 4140, and make sure to keep drill bit moving. If you stop feeding in the cut, work-hardening can result. Set your depth stop before starting, use a rigid setup, and feed steadily into the material. Don't advance too fast, or the burr you push into the bore will be hard to remove. If this description makes you uneasy then best to take it in. Barrels cost too much to replace to be worth saving 10 or 20 bucks if you don't have the right equipment.

[Triggers and .22 conversions.]

Cutting the tail off is the culprit here. You slow the lock time a little if you leave it, but the mass helps slam the firing pin down. With the JP trigger and a std DPMS hammer (semiauto, without the tailhook), it leaves a heavier gouge than any rimfire I own. It will split the rim open if you re-strike a dud round in the same spot. Med JP hammer spring or Mil-Spec work equally fine. Wouldn't try the light one

[Stoeger M3000 Scattergun?]

I got a 3500 and took it clay shooting today to start breaking it in and it was a jam-o-matic with the Federal Target Loads. Not impressed so far.

For those that opened up there loading port is the stock lifter long enough? I was looking at it today and it seemed as if I'd torch my finger on it during the reload.

There is a thread below specifically addressing the 3500. As I recall, the manual says not to go under 1-1/4oz on the 3-1/2 inch gun. Also, they usually have a light coat of cosmoline type grease on them from the factory which is pretty sticky, so it needs to be disassembled, cleaned, and oiled before use. When it jammed, did the empty eject, but next round failed to load? If that is the case, it means the shells have insufficient recoil to operate the gun. The bolt is not traveling rearward far enough to actuate the lifter. If that is not what it is doing, can you describe it? Often they will work with shells less than minimum recommended, but the manual says to break it in a couple hundred rounds with full-power loads. It also helps to store it with the bolt locked back to compress the spring for the first week or two.

Edit- just checked the other thread, and with a cleaned, oiled, and broken in 3500 it looks like 1-1/8 at 1200fps seems to be the low limit of cycling. My 3000 will go 1oz loads at that velocity, but it is only a 3inch chambered gun. It is a balancing act with the 3.5in guns, if they cycle with too light of loads, they beat themselves to death on the big shells.

[What has happened to the Mossberg 930?]

I absolutely agree. If the same shotgun was perfect for everybody, all the manufacturers would be making clones of the same gun. I am 6'3" and almost 250 lbs, so the biggest complaint about inertia guns (namely, recoil) doesn't affect me much. I will absolutely state without a doubt that the Mossy has noticeably less recoil than the Stoeger, but in my world that is not a purchase factor. For someone of normal size and shape (ie, not round ) the significant recoil difference might be the decision right there. I would not go so far as to say ANY shotgun is the perfect choice for everybody, because even ergonomics and/or looks play a part in many purchases. Savage bolt guns have tremendous accuracy potential, but their homely looks steer a lot of people to pay more for a Remington. Around here there are quite a few JMs VMs and Benellis, as well as Saigas and VEPRs. I have yet to see the CZ in the valley here, though I don't think it is because it is a bad shotgun. I think a lot of purchases are somewhat regional based on what the distributors stock. Sportsman's Warehouse is heavily stocking Beretta-owned companies (Benelli, Franchi, Stoeger, etc) and a lot of people still want to hold a gun in their hands before they buy. I have 7 shotguns at the moment, and all had something to commend them at the time or I wouldn't have bought them. The one thing I haven't tried yet is an AK type gun, because they seem more hit-or-miss on reliability than any of the tube fed guns. I actually have a Mossberg SA-20 gas gun for my 11 year old son, and it has been pretty reliable, although the disconnector was jammed right out of the box and I had to gunsmith it before it would even fire. Since then, we have been pleased with it

[What has happened to the Mossberg 930?]

Wasn't meaning to come off trollish. The fact that it requires so little gunsmith work is one of the reasons I like it so much. You can run it out of the box, with a Nordic mag ext (granted that part will take some fitting) and not give anything up to most of what people are running out there. My post was valid, as I wasn't volunteering my services to CORRECT the lifter, only pointing out that you DON'T NEED it fixed.

Edit- You may notice that most of the mods we offer are open class type stuff, which is irrelevant to this conversation. Fact is, a world class shooter could beat most all of us with a bolt release button 1/4 of standard size, and a 10 lb trigger pull. Lots of the mods we make give us more confidence in what we are shooting, but don't make us better shooters.

[Need advise on tuning an AR with jp low mass.]

Good point. Lapped barrels can show a noticeable pressure drop on a piezo transducer measuring before and after lapping. Theoretically less friction and a slightly larger bore result in less peak pressure. Twist rate can also influence pressure, to a small degree. My personal thought on 18s and 20s with rifle length gas is to START with a port size of 0.1035 if I am using an adjustable gas block. It is easy to turn it down if the parts combo requires, and no need to take it apart immediately due to not enough gas. Mostly because I have to make money at this, and re-doing stuff prevents me from doing that.

[Entry level 3gun AR optic?]

Weaver makes a fair entry level tactical scope. I shoot a Razor HD, which is NOT entry level, but 2 of my sponsored shooters are using the weaver and are happy with it. I shoot open class and use the Warne RAMP mount. I like how tough it is, but DANG its heavy! Next time my upper is apart it is gonna have a close encounter with the Bridgeport mill and lose about a half pound. Then it will just be heavy.

[Awesome customer service from Choate!]

If it was too long and needed to be shortened I woulda done it here, but to make it longer I would have had to cut off the end, thread the OD, and make an extension to thread on. Probably 2 hours worth of work including the reblue. Our shop is about 2 months behind, so I would rather pay somebody else to do it than try to fit it in around paying jobs.

[DIY Loading port work and welded lifter]

Heat it with a torch (removed from receiver of course) until it is glowing a light, translucent reddish orange (cherry red is not necessary) then bury it in sand. Turn the lights off so you can see the color change through your lenses, use a light shade (like for brazing, not what you would use for arc welding). You can get away with good sunglasses if your welding goggles are too dark, as you aren't heating to welding temps. Lime can be subbed for sand, but you need to put it in a substance that will slow the rate of cooling without the risk of catching fire at 1600+ degrees. Let it cool til room temp, then do it again. That is how I soften up the body of mini-14 triggers so I can drill and tap for adjustment screws, and they are about 55RC on the surface before annealing. If you use a fine nozzle tip you can focus the heat only on the top of the button and not soften up the whole thing

[My first match]

LMAO!!!!!! I think I have met you! Are you a bearded redhead named Matthew?

[Shotshell load for 3 Gun]

My experience with Kel Tec is that they have pretty good customer service, once you get through to an actual human. If you call and ask, they will probably tell you about when to expect the choke adapter in stock. Sometimes it works better with them to just order it, then they feel guilty after a while and fill the backorders. Now if only they would do that with their .22mag pistols! I know people that have been waiting 15 months!

[update on taccom 22lr frankenupper]

BTW, I should mention a big thanks to Tim from TACCOM (forum handle TRUBL). He supplied the rimfire parts for this project, as well as expertise. Shipping was prompt, packaged to protect the parts from damage. Other than my probably over-paranoid thoughts about the barrel extension diameter, I was well pleased with the quality of the components. Thanks Tim!

[update on taccom 22lr frankenupper]

Figured I had better follow through and write how it worked as I promised. I ordered a 22lr barrel and rimfire bolt assembly from taccom, along with 3 polymer blackdog mags as he recommended. Showed up in a USPS box a few days later. Finish on bolt assembly was well done, looks like nickel or? I measured the barrel extension diameter, as I am somewhat anal retentive, and found that it was 0.996 which is quite a bit under the nominal 1.000 +0/-.001 spec. Fit pretty loose in the mil-spec upper I assigned to this project. In reality, it is probably not as critical as on a centerfire barrel. I doubt it will squirm around with the barrel nut torqued down, but I would have liked a little tighter fit for alignment purposes.

I should mention at this point that I wanted this rifle to run with cheap Rem bulk-pack bullets, partly to keep practice cheap, and partly because I have about 15,000 rounds of it stashed. I know that most rimfire conversions prefer good ammo, so I was prepared for some tuning. I loaded up one of the mags and tried to charge the chamber. Insta-jam. Round got just out of the feed lips and rim popped up in front of the bolt. Ah, crap. I ran the next round slow-mo, same thing. As soon as round comes up, extractor kicks it sideways and it never makes it into boltface recess. I disassembled the rifle, and checked a round in the bolt. The rim on cheap Remington ammo is too thick to go under extractor beak and slide up the bolt face. I compared to CCI mini-mag, and there is a MUCH larger radius where the rim meets the case on the Remington ammo. OK, so I pull the extractor and cut it back a few thou, then re-bevel the bottom of the hook before re-installing. Back together, test again. Now, cases slide up bolt face, but only go maybe halfway into the chamber and get stuck. I attempt to feed a few more, and about halfway through the magazine they start feeding. All right, I have experienced THIS before. As the number of cartridges in the magazine decreases, the feed angle becomes less severe from the stacked rims. I pulled the barrel, and ran a Clymer .22lr chamber reamer into the barrel. It began taking a SMALL amount of material off the chamber walls near the chamber mouth right before full depth. This tells me that the chamber is maybe a Bentz, or auto-match profile, and a little tighter than max. I am not worried about Benchrest accuracy, so loosening it up a little is ok with me. Then, I took a cratex tip on my Dremel, and SLIGHTLY radiused the lower chamber edge down to the feed ramp on the adapter. DO NOT overdo this!!!! After re-assembly, I bench tested it and got full magazine feeding. All right, time to go to the range, instead of filling up my bullet trap.

At the range, feeding was good, but about 3-5 rounds per mag would not fire. Striker indents were severe, so I tried putting the duds back in rotated 180 degrees to get a hit in a different spot. About half fired on the retry. The remainder I re-struck in the same spot until the rim RUPTURED, and no love. So, obviously an ammo problem and not a light strike problem.

RESULT- with some mods, I got it to feed cheap crap ammo. I also get to practice my chamber clearing drills . CCI ammo runs fine, as I assumed it would. Overall, working about as I thought it would. I am just hoping that at some point halfway down the ammo can I will get into some cases that have enough priming compound in them

[receivers]

AR lowers are not heavily stressed parts, as evidenced by the success companies are having making them out of various polymers. The only place I have ever personally seen a plastic lower fail is across the web where the buffer tube is threaded in because the owner fell on the rifle and used the stock to break his fall. Other than that, hammer and trigger pin holes wear if the pins rotate. The only real reason the industry has abandoned 6061 is the corrosion problems because it reacts with the steel parts in very humid or salt-air environments. In a dry air desert environment you will never see any drawback from 6061. (Other than anodizing it doesn't quite seem to ever come out truly black.)

[Awesome customer service from Choate!]

www.recoilweb.com/preview-mossberg-sa-20-shotgun-26913.html is the link to the article that started this project.

[Awesome customer service from Choate!]

I just wanted to give a report about a manufacturer who really serves this industry. I bought my son a Mossberg SA-20 Bantam shotgun for Christmas to use in 3-gun. He has been shooting a pump 20ga, as he is only 11, and not very big yet. He finally started really being hampered by the speed of the shotgun, and I felt he was ready to step up to a semi-auto. I read an article in Recoil magazine about this shotgun a while back, and it seemed perfect.

In the article, they installed a Choate 8-shot extension and made some loading port mods. I looked around, and nobody seemed to make a 9-shot extension, and the 8-shot is about 3 inches shorter than the 24in barrel on the youth model (Bantam). Since 9 shells are allowed in his class I wanted to get something that wouldn't handicap him. I had a Choate extension on his pump which worked well, and they seemed to be the only company supporting the SA-20. Long story short, I called them to find out if they intended on ever making a 9-shot model for this gun. I was put in contact with Fred, (who is a fellow 3gunner btw), and he said that barrel length is unique to the youth model, and they didn't get much demand for such a beast. However, he had me measure the distance between the barrel bracket and the end of the barrel, and said they would custom cut a tube to match and solder it onto the correct nut for this model. On top of that, he said it didn't take significantly more time to make an odd length than a standard model, so he didn't even charge me extra for the custom length! ( I would have happily paid it if he had though.) I was thoroughly impressed by their desire to serve the customer, and in an era where customer service seems to be a lost art I thought I should pass on my great experience. We now eagerly await the arrival of the new tube, and my son is crossing his fingers that it show up some time next week before the match on the 18th. I told him to be patient as they have to fit it in to their schedule, and I was so happy that they would make a custom fit that I didn't want to ask them for a timeline.

[What has happened to the Mossberg 930?]

Not all of them have thumbeater lifters. There is one that needs no lifter work. It is the......wait for it............ STOEGER!!!!! mwaaaahahahahaha!!!!!!! $450 of sweetness with benelli reliability and minimal mods necessary. Don't know why you guys keep trying to justify spending more money for less gun.

Tom

[Stoeger M3000 Scattergun?]

We do, but there are already numerous competent people here doing such work, and I didn't want to cut into the work of any of the established vendors. Also, we are in Oregon, so there is no use in East Coast guys shipping their shotguns right past local guys to us, when they could get it shipped back in 1 or 2 days instead of 4. I am happy to work on the Benellis and Versa-Maxes, just wanting to specialize in this new platform since the value is so high. We have been working on the Mossbergs too, but I am not enamored with the reliability I have seen, and the FNs don't seem to like the light loads very much either.

Tom

[Syrac gas block problem]

That is interesting. Low profile gas blocks from Noveske, Sadlak, Troy, V7, and VLTOR that I have measured all have the port properly positioned for use without the stamped plate. Pretty much most of them that say they fit under a free-float handguard seem to account for the plate being missing.

[ar-15 slim forearm]

One of our pro-team shooters put the MI gen2 on his rifle, and he thinks it is TOO small. Also, it is not incredibly rigid, so one must be careful if you use irons out on the end (either offset or on top) of the longer versions. If you rest the tube on a barricade and lean into it hard, you can influence POI from sight shift quite a bit. The Noveske long rails are SUPER flimsy. You can deflect the end of the 16.7 almost 1/8 inch. I used one for one match and took it back off. Which made me sad, since we make the NSR nuts for them in our shop.