Cuz

Thanks to everyone for your input. I was guessing my load was going to be borderline Major and it appears as though most of you seem to agree. I think I will leave it alone for now because It should be safe to shoot for fun and practice. Eventually I will get a chrono and will then check it. For now, I mostly shoot alone indoors so borrowing one is not an option. I would like to ask one more question. If I keep my load at 4.5gr TG with a 180gr MG JHP but extend the oal how does that affect the Power Factor? I'm guessing that as I extend the OAL from 1.158 out all the way to lets say 1.20 that the pressure will go down and also the Power Factor will go down. Can some of you please confirm this for me? Thanks a bunch for all the replies, I really do appreciate them. -Cuz.

BigDave, I don't understand what you mean by flattened? Are you looking at the primers from the outside of the case or the primer inside the case? When you say I may need to back off are you talking about the amount of powder or something about the primers?

Crusher, While a chrono is important for match shooting I'm not convinced it's required just for casual plinking. I think I did a good job eliminating most of the "danger" from the equation by first purchasing a few different load books to review. Then I spent about a week scouring this forum cutting and pasting everyone's recipe's for the .40 that I could find. I used all of this data combined with the load books to finally decide on TiteGroup Powder and the Montana Gold 180gr JHP. Then I once again searched thru my data from this forum and pulled everything relating to TG powder and the 180gr JHP. from going over all that I initially started with loads down around the 4.2gr range and experimented up as high as 4.9gr with a long OAL which I "thought" would keep things relatively safe. My Para is relatively new and in good condition so I don't think I was doing anything dangerous. I think that if I proceed slowly and double and triple check my figures and data that I can proceed safely. The only reason I settled on the 4.5gr is because it tends to shoot comfortably and accurately. I still have some concerns about the oal. It seems most of you are really loading pretty long. I may stretch it out a bit and see if it makes a difference, but frankly I'm not sure what I'm gaining be extending the oal? If it's feeding reliability I've already got that (I think). If it's reduced pressure which increases safety then I'm all for trying it. How long is too long? When it stops feeding reliably? -Cuz.

Eric, Thanks for the input. Right now all I'm doing is practicing and learning about shooting and loading the .40. I figure I'm probably a good six months from shooting this in any local matches where there are NO chrono's. Just plate shoots and such. Very low key. I'm just shooting it for fun and practice. I don't expect I'll ever shoot at a match where my loads actually get chrono'd so I don't really need to buy one. I just like to have some idea what the power factor range is for the load I'm shooting. That way when I read all the posts on this forum about what everyone else is doing I can go to the range and try it myself. Then, I just like knowing that I'm shooting a similar PF range as the rest of you guys. For that reason I will purchase a timer/chrono just to play with more than anything else. I'm just a hack who likes to shoot for fun, but doesn't really have any where near the amount of free time to ever get any good at it. But I'm not going to let that stop me from trying.

Can someone provide a guess as to where my proposed load would be on the Power Factor scale? I'm using a 180gr Montana Gold JHP, 4.5 gr. TiteGroup powder with an oal of 1.158. I'm shooting it in a stock Para P16-40 LDA Limited. I'm just looking for opinions, not facts. I don't have a Chrono, and the current holdup on Pact MK1vs means I won't have one for a little while. Besides, I want to wait for the new PACT MIV XP to come out before purchasing. Does anyone have any info on it? Thanks a bunch, -Cuz

Just to wrap up, I rec'd some samples from MG and I was very impressed. They looked much better than I would have thought considering they are amont the least expensive. I ended up ordering a case of the 180gr JHP and was VERY surprised to get them in 3 days. My postal carrier didn't even try to deliver, he just stuck the card in my mailbox saying I had to go pick it up at the post office. Man, I bet the post office is going to rethink that policy about shipping anything that will fit in those little boxes regardless of weight. They weren't counting on the shooting industry. Thanks for all the input. I appreciate it. -Cuz.

bbrcape, Is the SVI listed on BOTH MA lists? Or just on the Hi-Cap list? I think the gun has to be on both lists. If memory serves me the second list is the kicker. That's the one that means a sample was sent off for all kinds of ridiculous tests and such. I can't imagine SVI would submit a couple of their guns to such testing since they usually get ruined in the process. BUT, if you do find out they are compliant, let me know when you order and I'll buy one two. I'm anxious to get my hands on a decent Limited gun. Right now I'm leaning towards buying the parts and having a smith build it. That ends up costing a few hundred bucks more than buying one outright and I dont' know whether or not you end up with a better gun. Please share any info you find out with other MA shooters. -Cuz.

Nick, I'd like to hear more about that SVI for sale in MA. Can you send more details? Are you sure it's MA compliant? Just because a MA resident currently owns it doesn't mean it can be sold to another MA resident. Thanks, -Cuz

Has anyone heard anything about a new Pact Timer coming out? I think it's going to be the MKIV XP. I called Pact today to ask some questions about their MKIV. I wanted to know if they were changing anything soon and they said they should have a MKIV XP out around the end of August. He didn't give me any more info than that. Can anyone provide any other info? -Cuz.

Too funny Kevin. I hear ya loud and clear...

...I may as well make them JHP in case they are ever needed for some "other" use. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've been told that MG's hollowpoints weren't designed for expansion at all. I've also been told that using handloads as self defence ammunition is asking for trouble. A case could be made for using what the local PD uses, and practicing with a ballistic equivalent for the sake getting the feel of the load, after testing the factory original extensively for reliability in your own self defence sidearm. Just passing along advice received, fwiw. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Normally, I would never carry handloads for personal defense, but lets be realistic here. Just about all shooters have more than a few boxes of ammo stored away "just in case". Heck, I own a Mini-14 I've put a few hundred rounds thru and then stuck in the back of the safe "just in case". I'm not much into rifle shooting. Too long to walk to setup targets. I guess I was just kind of thinking out loud that if I was going to pretty much always have at least a case of bullet heads in the process of being loaded and shot then why not make them be hollowpoints rather than roundnose "just in case". I do a lot of things "just in case". Don't most shooters??? Anyway, that would be ONLY if there was no difference between them. -Cuz.

Actually I just started to look at those Federals, and also the Remingtons (not Golden Saber) because they are reputable and available in quantities of 50/box. It's a damn racket for the ammo mfg's once they all seemed to stop making their high performance ammo in 50 count boxes. I used to be able to by Speer Gold Dot boxes of 50 but not anymore. Thanks for the info. -Cuz

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out right now.

That's what I'll strive for. I'm there with my .45, but it's been worked on. Not counting revolvers, only my S&W 9mm and other "combat" type firearms function 100 %. My target/competition guns all needed work so I'm just assuming that in order to eliminate that handfull of jams I'll need to have some work done. For right now I'll accept the 80-90% reliability until I decide on a load to shoot, and then whether or not I like the gun enough to have work done to it. When I first bought it I really liked the LDA trigger, but now that I'm shooting it a lot I don't particularly care for the LDA trigger on a competition gun. I like it on a carry/defensive gun because I'm more comfortable with it. I was originally going to put a comp and electronic sight on this Para, but now I'll wait to find a single action gun. I'll keep this one the way it is. -Cuz.

Thanks for the info Eric. Reliability is a concern. A handful of jams per 1000 or so rounds I can live with. More than that and I worry. Although I've already had a few jams with my Para P16 that I think I'm attributing to the fact that I'm loading out to 1.135 OAL. Loading the .40 is new to me so I have a lot to work out. Plus I'm still using up the last of my Bullseye powder. Then I plan to switch to Power Pistol after searching thru many posts here. Seems like that and TiteGroup are the favorites if you don't count Vihtavouri. I don't see many places selling it locally. I appreciate your input. -Cuz.

Thanks Steve. That'd be great. I plan on being there. Not sure if I'll shoot a .40 or .45 yet. I'll bring both and decide once I'm there. See you Saturday. -Cuz

I'm thinking about switching to Wilson Combat's high performance .45 ammo in my carry gun. Has anyone tried it? Has anyone chrono'd it? I'm wondering how fast the 230gr hornady XTP bullets are going. While I'm on the subject I'd also like to know how fast the 200gr's are moving and whether or not they are +P. I sent Wilson an email but I don't know if they'll give out that info. Anyone have any thoughts about using it as a defense ammo? Do you think it looks too much like a specialty load? Normally I would stick to straight factory ammo, but this is actually cheaper and since I shoot my carry gun a lot to practice I figure I'd give it some consideration. Comments? -Cuz

Great, thanks for the info. Now I've eliminated FMJ and am down to two. Is there any performance difference between the CMJ and the JHP? I mean if they are absolutely positively the exact same then I guess I'll go with the hollow points based soley on the point that if I'm going to have a few thousand bullets at the house I may as well make them JHP in case they are ever needed for some "other" use. Can someone tell me which one is taller? I might choose the taller one because that will give me more bullet in the case which may result in better bullet grip. that may minimize the chances of the bullet getting pushed back in the case during feeding. Does either JHP or CMJ tend to feed more reliably? I have a stock Para P16.40 Limited LDA. If one was more reliable than the other I'd like to know. Yes I know I could order some and test, but if I'm going to order I'd like to order at least a case for the price break so I want to make as best a guess as I can. Thanks again for the info. -Cuz

Ok, I've read the posts and done a lot of searching. I'm new to .40 caliber shooting and don't want to shoot any more lead. I've decided (after long hours of reading here) that I will buy a case or two of Montana Gold 180 gr bullets. Can you guys help me determine which one to choose? This is ONLY for recreational shooting and local matches. Nothing else. What is the difference (performance wise) between a JHP, the FMJ or the CMJ bullets. All responses are greatly appreciated. I want to figure this out before I buy 5000 of them. -Cuz.

I have a set of Pro-Mag Dimension 1 from Pro Ears. I love them. I almost didn't buy them because they use four N batteries, but I've had them about 3 years and only replaced the batteries once. Plus, they come with a five year warranty. Can't beat that! Highly recommend them. -Cuz

Thanks for the info. I printed your measurements but won't get to check mine till tomorrow. I'll let you know how I make out.

I'm using Lee dies in a Dillon 550B press, 165 gr West Coast plated RNFP bullets. Firearm: Para Ordnance P16.40 LDA. It seems that the only way I can stop the bullets from receeding .005 into the case during feeding is to crimp down to .415. Is this dangerous? Based on info gathered from this site I'm using an OAL of 1.150. With a standard crimp of .422 the ammo feeds fine in my Glock M23, but receeds .005 each time it is fed from the magazine into the chamber of my Para. As an experiment I cranked the Lee Factory Crimp Die down about two full turns so the crimped round measures .415 at the case mouth. Then I cycled it into the chamber a few times and the OAL didn't change! This is the first time I've gotten a case to stay the same length during feeding, and that includes factory ammo. My concern now is if I'm using either of the following loads is it dangerous? 7.3 gr. Power Pistol, or 5.2 gr. Tite-Group I'm looking for something that comes close to 165 PF based on load book data. Thanks in advance for any assistance. -Cuz.

Thanks for the info, but I'm afraid it didn't work. I'm using the Lee sizing and crimping die, and the new powder funnel/expander from Dillon. After sizing, I took the expander and was able to slide it right into the case without any force. That tells me that the expander is smaller than whatever the sizing dies are sizing the brass down to. This was true regardless of if I used the Lee or Dillon Sizing die. Then, using varying amount of crimp, I had to crimp all the way down to .415 before the bullets would stop receeding into the case during chambering in the Para. At this rate of testing I'm going to use up all 500 rounds of the 165 gr bullets before I start shooting!!! I guess my question now is if I should be concerned about crimping down to .415. Is it dangerous?

Thanks for the input. Actually Stump has a good point. It may be time for a call to the gunsmith. I'll wait til I receive the expander from Dillon to try it out. I ordered a set of 4 Lee dies in 40 caliber from Midway. They came in today, but somehow there was a screwup. The die set had 2 sizing dies and no seating die. I couldn't believe it. Fortunately Midway was very cooperative when I called them. They are sending out a new set and will refund my shipping charges to send these back. I do like dealing with Midway. Cuz.

Note to self. Stay out of Lawrence, MA shoots. Thanks for the info. Glad I didn't make the 70 mile trek up from Seekonk. I don't have to worry about clearing the pins because I'm not that good. But, I want no part of an unsafe match. LC.