ny32182

Recoil spring is marked 10lb standard length. I came from 9's, and they were too light to work reliably past 3k rounds. When I switched to 10lb, I had no problems for the first 6k rounds, then this started up. I immediately replaced the recoil spring with another 10lb, but with no change in behavior. Hammer spring (main spring?) was in the gun from a builder, so I don't know what it is, but PROBABLY a 13lb with minimum 100k cycles on it including dryfire. It will only light Federals. Lube, currently I use a touch of slide glide on the rails, and oil on the barrel lugs and front of the barrel where it held by the slide. I have a friend I trust that was trying to talk me out of the slide glide and just go to all oil, but... haven't done that yet. Silky smooth racking? I don't know... doesn't feel really any different than any of my others.

Given that you go to one of the smaller factory safetys, for SSP the OAL is close enough to depend on variances in the individual frame and box. You can't make a blanket statement, and there is no "approved gun" list in IDPA. You could ENSURE legality in ESP in all boxes by shaving down the beavertail and/or safety as needed. Stock 1/2/3 are definitely illegal in all divisions.

I definitely have not ruled this out. Recoil feels the same, but it is hard to tell the difference, for me, between, say 125pf and 135pf out of a gun this heavy. I've determined that I believe these guns run best at at least 135pf, and that is my goal. I was shooting my backup gun yesterday and chronoed 134.5. Most recently in my primary gun I've probably actually been having one stovepipe per hundred rounds. I had two in a club match Saturday where I shot about 160 rounds. I shot 300 of the same ammo yesterday out of the backup with nary an issue. Not a huge sample, but the way things are going, I'll be shooting the backup till this gets sorted out, and I expect that as time rolls on it will become more evident that the ammo is not the issue at the moment. I went away from 9's earlier this year since they would start giving me problems after as little as 3k rounds. It started as issues with not quite going back into battery, and at the same time, my power factor was actually drifting downward. When the PF got low enough, in conjunction with worn out 9lb springs, I started getting really bad double feed like malfunctions. After much debate and discussion at the time (I can dig up and link the thread on this if needed) I went to 10lb recoil spring, and have been careful to keep the power factor right near 135 since then. Following those changes, I shot 6k trouble free rounds, and then the stovepipes started up. Since I was new to 10lb recoil springs, that is the first thing I changed (since I still don't know how long those last for me) but no help. Same thing for replacing all the extractor components.

Area behind the extractor was fully cleaned out when I swapped extractors. I also detail clean the slide every... 8k rounds, it appears, on average, so it didn't have 30k worth of gunk behind it before I replaced it.

Ah... the slides and frames kind of "wear in" to each other right? Not sure I want to do that. I just replaced the extractor; new one has only like 1000 rounds on it. The behavior was not changed. When it doesn't stovepipe, it sometimes ejects very weakly, and I think those are "near" stovepipes. The backup gun yesterday (identical parts setup in every way) was ejecting like normal a few feet out toward 3oclock with the same ammo. Has anyone ever worn out an ejector? I think I'm going to eyeball the ejectors closely sometime soon to see if there is any visual difference between the two.

The stats on EAA website are often grossly incorrect. Namely the Limited Pro OAL. Stock 1: Out because of the cone barrel at least. This is probably the only reason though. Stock 2: Out because of the cone barrel, and it is over weight. It actually does weigh 44oz. To lighten it you'd have to take metal off the frame somewhere; no aftermarket grips are going to be lighter than the wood stockers. Maybe possible; I don't know. But the discussion is moot because of the cone barrel. Taking weight off the frame even internally might not be SSP legal either (not sure) and if it isn't SSP legal, it would be out for ESP anyway because of the FLDC. Stock 3: Heavier than the Stock 2... way over weight, going to be bang-on/very close photo finish on length, like the Limited Pro (see below)... but discussion is moot because you are never getting that sucker under 43oz. Limited Pro: Best candidate for IDPA SSP at least. It is actually VERY close on overall length. It literally depends on which frame, and which box you get. I've only ever found one box that mine won't quite go into. It has made it into all the wood boxes I've tried. Also the width: I can't use the factory limited pro safety for ergonomic reasons, so I put a factory safety on it that is the same one that comes on the Stock 2. It is very, very close to the max overall width dimension with the stock 2 style safety. I believe it would be over with the out-of-the-box safety. If this is a concern, you could just go to a single sided safety and have no worries. Luckily there are lots of factory options on safeties to choose from that should all be SSP legal. Weight: Again, very close, but you should be good to go as long as you don't add anything. If you start adding metal grips and whatnot, you could hit the line very quickly. To be every box/every scale legal, you can, if you want, shave a few mm off the beavertail and saftey, and roll in ESP. In SSP you take your chances on which box you get, it is that close. I would not want to start a stage having to pull this gun out of the box though. My opinion, that is an unfair/unequal start position that can heavily favor one gun over another and should not be something that is done, but you do run across it from time to time. What they need to do is make a Stock 2 length Limited Pro (A 4.5" gun with straight barrel and shorter dust cover)... It would be a fantastic gun that would be every box/every scale legal, and be a great shooter. Also, all the Tanfoglio "competition frames" are identical except for dust cover length. This includes the Stock 2,3, Limited Pro, Limited, and Open guns. The Stock 1 has a different frame with less stippling and a smaller magwell.

Within about the last 2-3k rounds, my "primary" Stock 2 9mm has started stovepiping once every 200 rounds or so. Maybe more most recently. So far I've replaced: Recoil spring (new 10lb) Extractor Extractor spring/roll pin Magazines No dice so far. Problem persists regardless of whether the gun is squeaky clean or has a few hundred rounds through it. I shot 300 rounds of the same ammo through my backup yesterday with no problems. All ammo gauged, and chronoed 134.5 PF out of my backup yesterday. So I really don't think it is the ammo. Any guesses? The only thing I haven't replaced that touches the ammo, other than the barrel, is the ejector. But that would require a whole new sear cage and safety to be fit (right)? Total round count on the impacted gun is 31k plus regular dryfire. None of the other springs other than the recoil spring (and now extractor spring) have been replaced, if that matters... I'm sure some of them might be due, but I can't imagine how they would cause stovepipes. Thanks for any input.

Anything from CZ (and not CZC, which is a different company) is legal as long as it meets all the size and weight requirements, to my knowledge. Cost... no. Many people spend far more than the cost of any CZ on ESP and CDP guns. The real answer is that consciously or not, many/most people gravitate toward what the current champ is shooting. In IDPA, the greatest champ shoots a Glock, and the biggest sponsor makes the M&P. Therefore that is what people want to shoot. No IDPA exclusive shooters think you can win with a DA/SA. USPSA production has been dominated by DA/SA metal guns for a few years now, and therefore they are much more popular in that sport now. Glocks and other plastic are losing ground and considered a stop gap till you can afford a "real gun". That wasn't the case when the top guys in that division were shooting Glocks. Just the way it goes.

I don't recall an obvious difference in thickness but will look again tonight... will see if the mic will help but that might be difficult to get a good measurement.

I ordered a "10lb Longslide". What I got is in fact marked as such. However, visually, they look identical in every way to my 10lb regular full size... exact same length, exact same number of coils. I'll drop one in sometime to see if it feels any different. If not I'll order some 12lb fullsize and see what comes in that bag.

As I mentioned earlier, I've been using fullsize 10lb in my Stock 2 recently. I just ordered some longslide 10lb.... I'll post a visual comparison when they get here. If the poster earlier is correct, the fullsize 10lb I have in the Lim Pro at the moment would be equal to having an 8lb in the stock 2. Just based on the effort needed to retract the slide on each, I can believe that.

This

Crud won't be a problem... we are shooting competitions, not belly crawling through swamps. I have a set of prototypes I spent some dryfire time with a little while ago. They have a nice grip level; not too much, not too little. For me, the most important thing about a set of grips is the width. With the aggressive checkering on the front and back strap, personally, the grippyness of the side panels is a secondary concern. These are narrow up top, and get fatter on the way down to the magwell. You can kind of see this in the picture straight from the rear. Think Erics up top, stockish down low. They fit well, stay in place, and look cool. If they are sized how you like, I say go for it. They are cheaper than the Erics too.

Load is currently an xtreme 147 RN @ 1.15". So far with the 10lb spring and the OLD mags, I've had no occurrences of this issue. I tried new mags again with the 10lb spring, and sure enough, had one of these type malfs. I loaded up 6 new mags to 17 rounds and are letting them sit for a week or so in hopes of getting the springs to break in a little. Also I might go to an 11lb and see if that takes care of it in the Stock 2 once and for all. I hear that is what Frenchy runs in his. If the info above from Nathan and the guy who called Wolff is correct, sounds like if you want "10lb equvalent" in the Lim Pro, I need to go to a 12-13lb in the Lim Pro. It is worth a shot. Thanks everyone for the input.

Obviously I'm not the expert, and don't have that specific gun at this time, but it seems to me after looking at some of the info in this thread, it is mostly about recoil system length vs. spring weight... I'd probably start with the same weights I'd use in a 9mm stock 2 and go from there. For me that is currently a 10lb, maybe trying 11lb next.

Interesting... good info.

When the double-feedish thing happens, the only thing pushing the second round forward is friction with the round above it. No marks on the case I'm aware of. The mag springs have a specific end coil on each side that levels the follower and holds the basepad in place, respectively... Seems like clipping either would be a bad idea?

Kind a long story with some low percentage issues I was dealing with starting last summer... Background: I've used the same mags for EVERYTHING in my now 15 months of shooting Tanfos. Dry fire, live fire, matches, everything. I normally run 147's at 135pf. My dillon powder bar drifts downwards very slowly, maybe 10k rounds for it to drop a tenth on the scale. With my setup last year, with a new 9lb spring I'd be good until about 3k rounds and then would have intermittent failures to go into battery. Like one every few hundred rounds to start. Top round would strip, just not quite make it all the way to battery. A couple times it wouldn't quite strip all the way, but a tap on the slide would get it moving. So, I started replacing the 9lb at about 3k rounds... no problems for the rest of the year. Cut to FL Open this year. I knew I had "excessive" mileage on my recoil spring, and would have changed it, but didn't have an extra, and handn't been having any problems, so decided to let it ride. Also I hadn't tweaked my powder charge for a while, knew it should go back up, but again, stuff had been working 100% in practice, so I decided to let it ride and make tweaks after the match. I was chronoing 130pf right before the match. Unfortunately I had a stage train wreck starting with a new type of malfunction where the old case is ejected, new round is on the way into the chamber, but the round below that one is pushed forward into the feedramp, stopping the slide way out of battery... It never happened before then. I was late in the mag anyway, and in real time feels like the slide locks open... racking it puts you into a double-feed-like situation. It wasn't pretty. So anyhow, I kind of thought that was the mags; they are worn, original springs, etc, so when I get back, I grab some brand new mags and head to the range... I get the above new kind of malfunction about halfway through every single magazine. I talked to a friend who has had the opportunity to do a lot of testing with these guns in various setups, and his opinion was that the cause was basically a slide velocity problem in conjunction with the amount of pressure my old mag springs were putting on the stack of rounds in the mag. He recommended a bump back to 135pf and go to a 10lb recoil spring. Done. I had zero issues with this setup, until Area 6, where I had a nice stovepipe that cost some time on a very fast classifier stage, and pretty much wrecked that stage too, but anyway... Always fun to discover new ways to malf at major matches. So far the stovepipe is still a one-off thing, so I'll not worry about it unless it repeats. I have about 3500 rounds with the 10lb spring, and no failures to go into battery all the way, and none of the second round of the mag going into the feed ramp type failures yet either.

Very strange... That one on the right doesn't even look like it is long enough to cover the Lim Pro guide rod, assuming they are all leveled at the bottom. None of my guns would run on a 6lb, I guarantee it. I was replacing 9's every 3-5k, until I went to 10's, still going on my first 10.

At the moment I have exactly the same recoil spring in both: 10lb full size. The pressure pushing the slide forward is very noticeably less in the Lim pro close to lock up, due to the spring being 1/4" more relaxed when the gun is in battery. Now I'm thinking I need a longer spring for the Lim pro... same weight, just longer.

That sounds very counter-intuitive.

My guns start getting sketchy quick with a relatively low mileage 9lb... they would not run with a 6lb. I switched to 10lb this year in my Stock 2.

Thanks... yep, I've been using "full size" in my Lim pro... apparently that is bad.

I thought the springs were the same... maybe this is my problem. Wow. Can someone link me up to the correct limited pro springs? "EAA Witness full size" that I use in my Stock 2's are not it? I've been aware for sure that the same spring that I have in both Stock 2 and Limited Pro is more relaxed with the gun in battery in the Lim Pro.

For those who shoot both, have you found you need different spring weights for one gun vs. the other if both are set up for minor?