DaveI

Thanks for the input. After further reading and consideration, I think I'm sold. I'm just going to save up after a recent/unexpected trade/purchase and then get one. Which mount are you guys using (normal or extended)? -Cheers

So I'm checking out the Burris MTAC (online at least for now, not been able to scout one down locally). Would there by any reason for somebody in my situation to bump up to the Burris XTR, or should I just stick with an MTAC, try it out, and see what I like or don't like about it first before deciding to stay or move on to something else? The XTR reticle looks pretty sweet, however this will be my first optic so I'm leaning toward the MTAC and more ammo. Any insight would be welcome. -Cheers

I've been examining my options and this is one of the few I keep (re)considering. A few follow-up Q's since some of you have probably had this one for a while: 1) Reticle: Do you ever find the reticle too busy, or once you get used to it do you find it pretty intuitive and quick to use? 2) Use as a Red Dot: How does it work at 1x w/ both eyes open for use more-or-less as you'd use a red dot? 3) Battery Life: Not the biggest deal, however considering it is meant as more of a service-type optic and you apparently need a tool to change the battery, I'm wondering how long the battery lifespan seems to be. 4) Durability: I'm not going to play basketball with it, however with only a 2-year warranty I'd like some assurance they're holding up well. 5) Green?: I've seen some pics of the GRSC (maybe the Korean 1-4x, not sure) where it had a green reticle. Is that an option for the 1-6x? 6) Precision: I know it's more of a quick-acquisition optic. Just wondering, how precise IS it at 300 to 500 or 600 yards relative to something like an AccuPoint or Vortex or more precision-based reticle? -Cheers

Thanks for the replies thus far. As for... Maaaaaaaybe. I'm looking more for true (or as close to true as I can get) 1x. Hence the Burris MTAC, Vortex Viper, or the like might be somewhat better options. Still, it looks like a possible consideration. It's not so much a matter of budget, just a matter of not wanting to blow my budget on a >$1k-$1.5k optic quite yet until/unless I'm sure it's what I'll really want for the long haul. Hence my reluctance to jump on one of the more upper echelon offerings yet, unless I'm fully committed. Otherwise, the two votes for the MTAC have been duly noted. -Cheers

I'm wondering if there are any great optics that tend to go for really nice prices on the used market. I'm going from BUIS so anything is likely to be an improvement. However, I'm looking to either: A) Get something that will be my end-point optic, or; Be a "scab" until I save up for something like a Vortex Razor 1-6x, Accupoint, Nightforce, Meopta ZD, or maybe wait and see if Trijicon magically puts out an Accupoint 1-6x w/ ACOG-style BDC reticle. A boy can dream, eh? A "scab" (probably not the best term) can either be a budget optic for a year or so, or even just a better set of irons. I've considered that too. Anyway, I'm looking for advice between A & B, and then options for A or B. Any input? -Cheers

Without naming names, were there any details discussed about the bulled drop reticle? I suppose it's too much to hope for an ACOG style reticle w/ a 1-6x magnification range. Still, if you have any other rumored details (e.g. bullet drop design, estimated release date, guesstimated MSRP, etc.), we're all ears. Even if it is all speculation & rumors at this point. -Cheers Pretty much what he would let me know and said he will most likely be testing it... Did it sound like something they were maybe planning for SHOT or commercial sales in 2013, or can you say? -Cheers

Without naming names, were there any details discussed about the bulled drop reticle? I suppose it's too much to hope for an ACOG style reticle w/ a 1-6x magnification range. Still, if you have any other rumored details (e.g. bullet drop design, estimated release date, guesstimated MSRP, etc.), we're all ears. Even if it is all speculation & rumors at this point. -Cheers

Really? Do tell. I've wondered if/when they would come out with a 1-6x and maybe give us the reticle we all seemingly want. Is any info, leaked report, or solid rumor available? -Cheers

Subjective question; do you see the reticle for the Razor II getting "better?" Or if anybody has heard any feelers about what they MIGHT offer for reticles. On one hand I guess I just like knowing what my options are before I buy. On the other, this seems pretty good in that it's simple, uncluttered, and has all I think I'd use. I'm curious how people think it compares to the Razor EBR-556 reticle. I suppose I can just wait and find out what else they throw out there, just thought I'd ask the peanut gallery. -Cheers

To reiterate this, what is the difference between the Vortex Viper (or Burris MTAC or the like) and the Vortex Razor 1-4x or Razor Gen II 1-6x (obviously magnification aside)? How much would your Average Joe be able to tell, or perhaps more importantly at what point would the better glass/reticle/whatever become important enough to warrant going up to the upper end optics? -Cheers

Will the Viper or MTAC use the same mount? That might be nice if I find a nice mount w/ the scope as a combo for sale. That was only from hearing they were going to be offering different reticles. I was more or less thinking of seeing what came out over the next few months then seeing of one tickled my fancy more than the other(s). That said, I am drawn to simpler things and just figuring out the rest by practice or intuition, so honestly the current one might be ideal for me. Yeah, that might be what I'm inclined to do, unless I see some great deal on a used/prize Viper/MTAC/etc. with a mount I really want and can use w/ the Razor later on. Otherwise I can just get real good w/ the irons in the meanwhile and save up over the next couple of months. These laser-guided bullets you speak of. I'm listening. Thanks for the input. -Cheers

I'm in a similar situation, having become a bit smitten with the Vortex Razor Gen II. I just have irons right now. Would it be advisable to get a Vortex Viper, MTAC, or similar (I've got my eye on a few others) as a band-aid until the Razor 1-6x becomes more widely available and maybe with a reticle I love, maybe even loving the Viper/MTAC/etc. enough to just stick with it for an extended time, or for a first-time optics buyer would you just recommend a more intermediate scope? I'd like to be all "buy once, cry once" yet want to be smart enough to not just go for the next big thing just because. -Cheers

What are the general ranges for the Three-Gun competitions in WI? I'm trying to use this to plan which optic to buy and the guy at my LGS who I really trust pretty much said they tend to be ~100 yards or less (to the ones he's been to at least) with the occasional farther shot here or there. Any input for that? -Cheers

It does. I still like the idea of an American made product with a tritium optic that never needs batteries. However, yes, the Meopta ZD looks very promising. I can understand your sentiment. I've read your review of the aforementioned Meopta. It sounds like you are pretty happy with that? I contacted them too. They basically said they've gotten similar requests and to keep checking their website for future upgrades. I don't know if that means "the Accupoint you are hoping for is in the pipeline," or "we really hope if you stare at our catalog long enough you'll just decide to buy an Accupoint or ACOG and forget about the optic you described." As for killing the ACOG market? Dumb question: why is that a problem if the ACOG would be replaced by one of their own products? Wrap it in the ACOG exterior, rename it the 1-4x (or be progressive and make it a 1-6x) Variable ACOG, price it competitively with the competition that is currently probably a bit more advanced, and sell a ton of them. That seems like kind of a win/win to me. -Cheers

Are there logistic reasons, or is it a business decision? I am curious why they would not do it if they could, yet it seems like something that should be pretty doable. -Cheers

Just wondering if there has been any talk or hints from Trijicon about this. I really like the concept behind the Accupoint, especially the green triangle. However, I also really like the idea of some sort of holdover points (chevrons, dots, dashes, etc.) or some variant of the Acog BDC reticle. Plus 1-6x would be cool, however that might be getting ahead of ourselves. Regardless, the triangle seems clean, simple, and fast (although I've never tried one), and adding holdover points or the like (obviously the ACOG reticle is pretty highly regarded) seems like it should be doable. Add those and you would seem to have a much more useful optic. You probably know where I'm going with this. Is there any plan from Trijicon to do something similar with the TR24 1-4x or any of the other Accupoints? I'd really like a TR24g, however the range nearest me that hosts 3-Gun has targets up to 600 yards so I'm guessing I'd find those holdover points for the long shots kinda useful. -Cheers

jrb06, Ripon is probably my best bet. Do you or anybody else reading this know the distances for their range? If/when I do Three-Gun, that is probably where I'd be basing out if unless there are other clubs close by Oshkosh. I'm sort of mulling over mattwaage's advice and thinking of going with something more like a Burris, Vector Viper (as opposed to the Razor), even a used Accupoint TR24g, or the like and sticking with a lower cost but still nice optic (and 1-4x over 1-6x) since I'm not going to appreciate the pro's of a top-shelf optic. -Cheers

Would it be overkill in my situation to just save up and go from iron sights to the Vortex Razor Gen II 1-6x? -Cheers

We can get Scott to post in at some point, But he said that other reticles were "in the works" I have one that I am putting the finishing touches on -"as part of a wish list " that looks good on the paper and has plenty of feedback for ranging distance. I'm guessing it is probably pretty early to tell, however do they have any timelines on when they might know what reticles they would be offering? This is one of the ones on my consideration/wish list for optics, and maybe lucky for me I probably should save up a bit before buying one. Just curious what other offerings are "in the works" and when we might find out more about them. Of course, if they're not even fully developed much less decided upon I'll just have to wait. Regardless, thanks for the review and follow up. -Cheers

Thanks for the replies thus far. I'm in Oshkosh, WI. -Cheers

Hey Everybody, I am interested in getting into some sort of shooting sport or classes. I'm writing in for two reasons, at least to start. Optics and local class/sport opportunities. First, optics. This is for my Bushmaster ACR. I've done a lot of reading so hopefully this will be fairly straight forward. I am looking for something mainly 0-300 yards since that's what my local range has. I realize if/when I do 3-Gun I'll have to shoot longer, however most of the time I'll be shooting within those distances. I'm going from iron sights, so this will be my first optic however I'd like to "buy once, cry once" within reason. If I had to prioritize, just personal preference, I would probably prioritize CQB stuff rather than super long-range precision stuff. I'm also open to learning whatever reticle makes the most sense. Going from iron sights (pistol & just recently learning aperture), dots are what I'm most familiar with, however the horseshoe makes sense (i.e. if it fits in the horseshoe take the shot), and chevrons also seem like something I grow to love. I'm also fine learning to use an ACOG w/ Bindon Aiming Concept (BAC) technique (or trying and getting a micro red dot if I can't), if that's my best option. I am open to suggestions. I've been looking around however thought I would ask specific to the venues I want to participate (what kind of brought me here in the first place) and the places/distances I know I'll be shooting at mostly anyway. That said, what has appealed to me so far from looking and reading has been: Accupoint TR24 w/ the green triangle: I really like the simple uncluttered look, the green stands out to me, it can work as a RDS/GDS(?) at 1x, plus no batteries to die. If this had holdover chevrons/dots/dashes I think this would probably be perfect for me. But that's a guess. Also, it's American made which is a plus (nothing against other countries, I just like supporting U.S. businesses). ACOG: I'd kind of written off the ACOG, however reading more about it, it sounds like I should at least consider it and using the BAC style of targeting. I always shoot with both eyes open anyway, so hopefully that would help. Meopta ZD 1-4x: Basically, it's a relatively simple design with holdover chevrons. I wish it were green, but that's not a huge deal. I like the point of the TR24 triangle a bit more looking at it, however the ZD seems to have a lot of what I'm looking for. Vortex: The Viper PST or Razor both make sense. I'm not sure if for me it pays to jump up to the Razor or not, nor how well people like the Viper reticle. Other: I'll listen to arguments as to whether it would pay for me to just save up and get a Nightforce NXS (I know a lot of people seem to really like those), or a 1-6x like the Bushmaster Elite 1-6.5x or whatever else. Second I'm wondering if any of you have suggestions for good classes or venues to get into something like Three-Gun, IDPA, or the like in the Wisconsin area? Any input is appreciated. Thanks in advance! -Cheers

Hey Everybody, Just posting the obligatory intro. I'm in the Fox Valley, Wisconsin (Oshkosh to be precise). I'm interested in Three Gun, finding out my options for learning in-state (classes, training, competing [down the road], etc.) and just generally getting better at shooting, which led me here. Cheers, Dave I