Carmoney

I haven't tried them personally, but I ordered a couple of the Blade-Tech carriers for the CompIII. My kid has been using them with his M-10 skinny-barrel for the last couple of IDPA matches, and his reloads are looking pretty smooth. He says the carriers work great. (Nothing has fallen onto the ground yet!)

John: We're gonna shoot IDPA with the Ashland Lake Gun Club on Sat. They're actually have a (gasp!) PIN SHOOT on Sunday morning, but our presence has been committed elsewhere that day (this is primarily a family "vacation" trip...) Thanks, anyway!! Reneet: I've been hearing those rumors, too. Think it might depend on whether Richard's new wife will approve.... :-) If they bring back Second Chance, I will do everything I can to arrange my schedule so I can be there!

Dangit--I knew I was forgetting somebody on my IA short list--thought it might be Denny Green from Lake City (I knew him when he was still thumb-cocking). Now you've reminded me that I also forgot Skip. Viers and Don Koch can both shoot revos pretty well too, although they seem to be semi-retired from competitive shooting. (Then again, 4 months ago, so was I!) I'm gonna miss plates this weekend--will be "vacationing" with family in OH. However, Sam and I have located an IDPA match out there, which will at least give us some trigger time... Having seen all the recent posts, I've decided to revise my trigger/finger advice to "shoot whatever the hell works for ya" and leave it at that.

h4444: Funny--with all the competitive shooting equipment I've owned over the years, I've never owned a shot timer. I better break down and make the investment one of these days.... When you start cranking on that DA trigger, you'll want to make sure to really keep your focus on that front sight, until you're used to it. (Hell, even after you're used to it, actually!!) Before stepping to the line up at Second Chance, my revolver buddies and I used to remind ourselves (and each other) of our little mantra: "Front sight, roll.....front sight, roll....." Really, that's about all there is to it! How did the action turn out on that 625?

I have really enjoyed shooting my 646 (non-PC) for IDPA this summer. Very fast, but more compact than a 625, and to my way of thinking, a bit more in keeping with the IDPA concept of shooting a gun that could actually be carried daily. (Yes, I know there are a few who claim they carry N-frames concealed...mostly Walter Mittys....) The rest of the package: -moonclips from Brownells -135-gr. Rainier copper-coated bullets at 128 p.f.,Titegroup, mixed brass -Blade-Tech tec-lok holster set on FBI cant (you can adjust them easily) -Blade-Tech tec-lok moonclip double moonclip holders (adjust with blowdryer) -Miculek grips -action slick by yours truly -Banana Republic vest -Lee relaxed-fit jeans -cheap-ass tennis shoes All of this is working quite well. If the stage is even halfway revolver-friendly, I'm hanging right in there with the better CDPs and ESPs. Mike

H4444: OK, you might be flattering me a little here, but I appreciate it nonetheless. You mentioned last time I saw you that Rick hadn't finished up your wheelgun yet--hope you find it as fun to shoot as I have my own various wheelguns. We are fortunate to have some very fine revolver shooters in our midst here in Iowa: Dwight, Dr. Jay, Doug Carden, Kenny Frost, and Barney Niner are a few that come to mind. Not sure whether I'll be at the OOPS match on the 25th or at the Lowell gun club where they're supposed to be shooting an unofficial ICORE match that day. RPM: We will definitely be looking for you at the Steel Challenge! I'll be the one with the 627 in an old brown Safariland 002 and a dazed expression on my face. I can't believe I actually signed up for that match considering that I've only shot the format twice. Man, it sure is fun stuff, though! Anyway, I'm comfortable with the fact that this will be my "learning" year, and I'm sure looking forward to seeing Jason P. and the other tough iron-sight wheelgunners do their thing. In both situations, win or lose, I will be shooting with the first joint of my trigger finger, on a slick and slippery trigger. (See how I neatly tied all of this discussion back into the original topic?)

RPM-- Actually, at Second Chance '93 I was second to Ken Tapp. Jerry finished third, after I managed to beat him on the tie-breaking "throwaway" table. (He used his fingertip and his serrated trigger and emptied both his main gun and his backup gun faster than it took me to fire five times--unfortunately for Jerry, he rolled one into the corner of the tiered table and couldn't dig it out even with all that lead flying downrange...I went slow and hit five for five.) Unfortunately, the great game of bowling pin shooting seems to be nearly extinct these days... I've never shot the IRC (or any other ICORE format matches), but would love to try it someday. This year I'm going to give Steel Challenge a whirl, for the first time. I'm hoping I can be "mildly competitive" in the Iron Sight Revolver division. My 11-year-old son will also be competing out there with an iron-sighted S&W wheelgun (686+ 7-shot). Figured I might as well start him off right!

RPM: Oh, by no means did I mean to imply that Jerry M. does speed stunts only. In terms of shooting a revolver, he's absolutely the best there ever was. He's also a wizard with dang near every other type of firearm you can put in his hands, typically winning the majority of side events at the various matches he shoots. He's also a good guy on a personal level. I shot against Jerry at Second Chance for a number of years, in the main event and the shootoffs. Sometimes I beat him, but most of the time, he beat me. Knowing I could never compete with him at his own game (the incredibly fast stuff, that is), I would go for consistent 5-shot runs at a pace of 4 seconds or a little less. Jerry would never slow down, no matter what. Running at the raw edge of control, occasionally he'd make enough of a mess of his tables that my plan would work. (In 1993, I finished second overall, Jerry finished third--Tapp beat us both.) Jerry is definitely not about speed only. I was just trying to make the point that I think his technique (with the fingerpad and serrated trigger)--derived from Ed McGivern--is a highly-specialized method which can enhance pure balls-out speed, but will create a counterbalancing loss of control for most of us non-wizard shooters. Mike

Wanna know one reason Jerry can do what does with his finger pad? Watch the DVD and take a look at the musculature in his forearms. (Now watch yourself in the mirror while you dry-fire......)

15-20 years ago Jerry was the ONLY guy shooting serrated triggers with his finger tip. Now everybody who's watched his DVD is trying to imitate him. This technique may have merit for the pure McGivern-style speedshooting stunts, where the only goal is to empty the gun in half a second, but I really don't think it's practical for much else. Jerry should keep shooting serrated triggers with the pad of his index finger--he can do it. The other 99.999% of us should be using smooth narrow triggers, and be pulling them with the first joint. Or so it seems to me. Mike

I vote Square Deal, and truly believe the fact that it auto-indexes is a major safety feature. If you need something more, I'd jump up to a 650. I have loaded LOTS of ammo, in various calibers, on my trusty Square Deal B over my years of competitive shooting. It's the only press I've ever owned. Although I must admit I keep staring at the pictures of the 1050 in the Blue Press... (along with a few other pictures, perhaps...) ;-)

Hi Randy, Interesting. I think I agree with some of your points, but perhaps not all: It's hard to say how the Sc/Ti guns would hold up to the high-round-count that we competitive shooters typically ask the gun to endure. Conversely, we know the traditional steel wheelguns (like Jerry's old 8-3/8" 27) can and will go literally hundreds of thousands of rounds, with relatively little maintenance. They may get a little shaky, but they keep right on working. Like you, I would wonder about long-term durability on the superlights. I don't think the inertia bullet-pulling issue would be a problem with steel plate loads. I have owned several of the Sc/Ti guns, and found that bullets only move forward in the cases when the highest-recoiling magnum loads were being fired. Likewise, I'm not sure that flame-cutting would be a problem with typical steel plate loads--I think most of the flame-cutting problems with revolvers in general have involved heavy magnum loads, particularly those loaded with ball powders (W-W 296, for example) which tend to create a sandblast effect. As I understand it, these new "scandium" frames are still essentially aluminum, with just a tiny pinch of scandium thrown in to enhance strength. Aluminum has been used in handgun production (S&W airweights, Colt Commander, etc.) for decades, and has been found to hold up fairly well, I think. Anyway, we need an adventurous and well-heeled shooter (like Doc, for example!) to make the investment in this project, and put the resulting gun to a true endurance test, don't we? :-) Mike

Shred: They already make the N-frame in scandium set up for adjustable sights, and drilled/tapped for optics (e.g., 325PD, 329PD), so this might be possible as a custom PC project? Drilling it after the fact should not be a big deal either. Doc: (1) Don't know about the accuracy--I've heard that weird shrouded barrel system they're using on the Ti/Sc guns is not the greatest in that regard--I think I'd want a longer barrel anyway to get some velocity out of the thing; (2) I'm sure the 327 uses the same 8-shot moonclips as the 627, and those rubber rip-away speedloaders are available too; (3) I don't know anything at all about scopes--I've always shot iron sights in competition.

I see Mike Gabriel even has one of these little 21-oz. gems in stock: Gabe's 327

Hey Doc, If a guy wanted a superlight open steel revolver, couldn't he start with a new M327PC (like below), mount a C-More, maybe put on a different barrel of some kind? You could shoot it without moonclips (since you're not gonna be shooting more than 8 shots anyway), but if you wanted to speed-load it and wanted shorter ammo to make the loads easier, you could make up some stubby little cartridges in .38 Colt brass... Sounds like a cool project! (...and probably not all that different, functionally, from what JM is doing--although I haven't seen the article...) Bet you could build something really neat for less than $1500.

Hey Doc, you forgot one important question: What make/model of sweatband....

Chuck, Hop: I suspect (but do not know for sure) that the strength of titanium is needed for the cylinder on this model, given the paper-thin metal between the chambers and the cylinder stop notches. Let me ask you this--you guys who don't like the titanium stuff--have you experienced or witnessed any actual problems with them, or just have a "thing" about preferring steel? As I indicated earlier, I've shot many different S&W wheelguns in competition over the years, and I really like my 646. I'd say for IPSC/IDPA, a 4" 610 or 625 would probably be better (or maybe a cut-down 25-2!), but for a pure IDPA (and occasional concealed carry) gun, the 646 might be the ultimate. Then again--how's that expression go?--it's not the arrow, it's the Indian....

I found one just like the gun pictured above for $419 at the local Sportsman's Warehouse store, but I believe it was discounted heavily as a clearance item. They had two left, and a friend bought the other. Might be worth checking the various stores to see if they have any more (www.sportsmanswarehouse.com). My understanding is that this was a special run of 900 guns, to use up parts left over from the original Performance Center 646 project. I really like this gun for IDPA, and have been hanging in there with the best local auto shooters on stages that are reasonably "revolver neutral." Reloads are not quite as fast as a good 25-2 or 625, but close. I shoot a 135-gr. Rainier coated bullet at about 128 p.f., and it's very comfortable (although it doesn't seem all that incredibly accurate). Miculek grips, Blade-Tech tec-lok holster and moonclip holders. (To be extra tactical, I even carry it concealed to the match loaded with Fed. Hydra-Shoks.) Moonclips are available from Brownells. The gun does have a titanium cylinder, but mine has caused no problems. I've heard the original run of Performance Center 646s were problematic in that area. (They were also much more expensive.) I chamfered the cylinder a little to quicken things up, again with no problems. I did an action job on the gun, and everything smoothed up real nice. I have not shot IPSC major power loads through my gun, as I have a 25-2 I use for IPSC, but I have heard that the recoil generated by major loads in the 646 is just at the edge of getting a little uncomfortable for some people. Neat gun. I recommend you give it a try. Mike

The rulebook says no projectiles under 750 fps. It also says the stop plate is calibrated daily to reliably activate at 120 p.f., but there is also a back-up timer in case the stop plate doesn't activate. Others have told me there is no problem triggering the stop plate mechanism, even with a much lower power factor. I need to know for sure as I work up my final loads for the match. I shoot a stock revolver so I don't need to worry about slide functioning, and would prefer to use somewhat lower-powered ammo if possible, since I have no compensator or porting to reduce recoil (such as it may be). This is of particular importance to my 11-year-old, who is somewhat recoil sensitive. Please advise. Mike

OK, I know that the special Browning Buckmark event ("The Zone") is shot from the ISI ready position, but what is the starting position for the regular rimfire main event shot on Thursday of the Steel Challenge? Surrender position from the leather, right?

Based on what I see on the online club stats, Doc, you are the wheelman to beat around these parts when it comes to the IPSC game these days. I'll admit I'm still feeling a little rusty from my 9-year "retirement." Then again, there's nothing quite like a good challenge to shake out the rust and cobwebs from the old brain and trigger finger!

...and the moonclips are the best part!!

Dan, just happened to catch your name on the IRC results--very nice job! I'd love to shoot that match someday myself....

Yeah, I have a suggestion--take your drill bit (might have to use one a little smaller than 1/8"), lop off the chuck end with a dremel cut-off wheel, and make yourself an internal trigger stop out of it to replace the stock one. Make it a little longer than the pin that rides inside your rebound slide, and then file it down gradually so it stops the trigger travel just after the hammer drops in DA mode (unless you want to retain the ability to thumb-cock, and then set it to stop trigger movement just after the hammer falls in SA mode). Go slow, take the time to get it exactly right, round off the sharp corners so they don't catch on the inside of the rebound spring, and you'll never have to worry about it again for the life of the gun. Nothing to come loose, or come apart. Nothing to alter the exterior appearance of the gun. No violation of IPSC revolver rules--after all, you're just refitting a part that the factory didn't bother to fit properly... Mike

Doc, Lighter bullets will lower the point of impact (all other things being equal). For a carry gun, the various 165-gr. and 185-gr. JHPs are pretty good choices...