Standby!

It's all about hit factor. Take your total points, minus any penalties, and divide by time. That's the hit factor. Dive into the forums, searching for "hit factor strategy" and similar searches. The gist of this idea is to try and size up a stage in the walkthrough and pre-gauge whether a make up shot for anything less than a Mike is worth it in the hit factor. On a longer stage, say 150 points, then a makeup shot even for a Mike could actually hurt your hit factor more than just moving on without one. It ain't a science, it's hard to know for sure what the best plan is. Talk it over with your squad, everyone I know will help out anytime they can. Well, at least until you start beating them, then they'll lie, cheat, and hide you magazines. DVC. Someone thought it was cute to turn one of mags backwards..

You are lumping a lot of things in here under the umbrella of "shot calling" ... that really aren't shot calling. Shot calling is just the observation. It is sensory information. It is not decision making (conscious, nor sub-conscious). It isn't physical execution. It is just feedback. Explore the Star Ship analogy in post #54 of this thread on vision vs. visual patience. Ok thanks! I tend to over analyze everything..did you notice? I did have fun with it at the range over lunch today.

I can tell there's a misunderstanding here when I read this. If you're calling a shot an Alpha and when it's scored turns out it's a Charlie, then you messed up the shot call. That's a function of experience and skill coming together. The very best shooters in this sport sometimes screw up their calls, but you'll find them on the money 99% of the time. So yes indeed, the very best shooters in the sport call Charlies/Deltas/Mikes all the time, it happens. It's up to their instinct to decide whether a make up shot would improve or hurt their score. If you read my original post in this thread here you'll see that I once thought the idea of accurately calling shots was BS, I'm in a place now where 85% of the time my calls are correct. I find myself scratching my head during scoring too, not sure where that Mike came from when I called it an Alpha. It's gratifying though when I call a Charlie, take my makeup shot, and then in scoring see that stray shot was way out in the Charlie area just like I called it. Shot calling and deciding whether to makeup the bad shot are different things altogether. The discussions on hit-factor explain the logic behind makeup shots, at least in terms of USPSA shooting. IDPA has a slightly different scheme for scoring and makeups improve your score nearly 100% of the time. I'm not trying to prove the theory wrong..I'm clearly on board...I guess maybe I'm approaching this from the wrong angle..Isn't the whole purpose of this focus? If you can call it why can't you correct it? If you call it, then you consciously chose to take the shot for what it was? I'm not trying frustrate anyone here... analytically minded people wanna know.

Hmmmm... I'll second that Hmmmm... How can you know where the bullet landed it if didn't land where your sights lifted from? I didn't ask that..I just stated that not all shots go where they are called. Especially under stress.. a perceived alpha can result in a charlie. I have to let go of the notion that this is a precision game, everyone wants all alphas all the time, it's not possible especially given the stage times the top shooters run. Who would intentionally call a charlie? Nobody.. especially scored minor, but the scorecard tells a different story.

Yep..I revived a dead thread...yay me!

Ok I've finally wrapped my head around this..correct me if I'm wrong. Shot calling is another way to say pay attention to where the sights are when the gun goes off. The bonus or side effect is, you can't call it if you can't see it; situational awareness on steroids. So in essence it doesn't matter where you hit it if you called it. It's proactive instead of reactive? So here is my revised one liner.. You can't call it if you don't see it...the more I see it the better off I am. My 6th match is coming up Monday, and I took lunch today at the pistol range and worked on this..I feel good with the results. I'm new, and I'm very grateful for this site, and the help I receive here. The reason I couldn't call with confidence was in my execution of the fundamentals. That's why I posed those questions. Thanks, Jeff

Is this what you are trying to explain? Pay attention to :06

Sorry..I understand how it feels, lost a yellow lab to the same thing.

Hmmmm... If you call a shot, and see where the front sight lifted from.. and the bullet doesnt go to the spot where the sight lifted from, then you did not accurately call that shot, or your gun needs sighted in. That's not always the case..especially in a hurry.

I'll put this to you another way. How would you ever know if you have trigger control if you cannot call your shots? That is why I said your statement was a paradox. You wouldn't have much luck mastering the trigger if you could not call shots. The way I took your comments was: "learn both in parallel, because both are useful". I don't think that's really possible. I think you can learn some of the basics of trigger control and get an idea of how to break the trigger clean without shot calling, but it's not similar to the control of the trigger you develop once you can call shots. You threw out a scenario with some questions as well. A good shooter would know they had a Mike because they called the shot a Mike. The reason for this Mike could very well have been a bad trigger press but only the shooter can really say for sure. This is very much what I mean, the top shooter called the shot and know they had the Mike. When they're done they can asked themselves what happened to cause the bad shot and they can improve. A lesser shooter with a Mike might not have the first clue where to break down the failure, to them it looked good when the shot broke. How do you know whether you had a bad trigger press or poorly aligned sight picture, etc... if you can't call the shot? I agree with you that shot calling doesn't give you good trigger control. I also agree the two aren't the same. I'm saying shot calling is fundamental to trigger control. You can't master the trigger before you can reliably call shots. One must come before the other. I would say trigger control has to come before shot calling, or you end up calling things that won't happen. This goes deeper than trigger control, it's stance, grip etc. Nobody stated this was an advanced or beginning lesson, so at least in my position it looks like this topic is aimed at those who are beyond where I'm presently at, or is it? I just had an idea for a chart. Shot calling is merely seeing where the sights were when the gun fired, regardless of what caused them to be at that point. All I'm saying is even though you called a shot, it doesn't necessarily mean the shot ends up where your sights lifted.

I know it doesn't make much sense but when dealing with lawyers and the legal system not much does make sense. Do a little looking around on the web or ask a lawyer if you know one. Even if you shoot someone and are completely in the right you better be ready for a $100,000 legal bill if the guy or his survivors take you to court. When it comes out that you have had the trigger altered in any way shape or form it will work against you big time. Check with Marty Hayes at Firearms Academy of Seattle (FAS). He makes a living by selling policy's to folks who carry guns who may need a lawyer after the fact. Start a new thread and throw that question out and see what kind of answers you get. I am on your side but being on the side of reason will lose every time versus the legal system. zdog I understand..it is what it is..too bad it has come to this though.

I'm not sure if this makes any sense to anyone but me..but here it is, I made this up a few minutes ago.

I'll put this to you another way. How would you ever know if you have trigger control if you cannot call your shots? That is why I said your statement was a paradox. You wouldn't have much luck mastering the trigger if you could not call shots. The way I took your comments was: "learn both in parallel, because both are useful". I don't think that's really possible. I think you can learn some of the basics of trigger control and get an idea of how to break the trigger clean without shot calling, but it's not similar to the control of the trigger you develop once you can call shots. You threw out a scenario with some questions as well. A good shooter would know they had a Mike because they called the shot a Mike. The reason for this Mike could very well have been a bad trigger press but only the shooter can really say for sure. This is very much what I mean, the top shooter called the shot and know they had the Mike. When they're done they can asked themselves what happened to cause the bad shot and they can improve. A lesser shooter with a Mike might not have the first clue where to break down the failure, to them it looked good when the shot broke. How do you know whether you had a bad trigger press or poorly aligned sight picture, etc... if you can't call the shot? I agree with you that shot calling doesn't give you good trigger control. I also agree the two aren't the same. I'm saying shot calling is fundamental to trigger control. You can't master the trigger before you can reliably call shots. One must come before the other. I would say trigger control has to come before shot calling, or you end up calling things that won't happen. This goes deeper than trigger control, it's stance, grip etc. Nobody stated this was an advanced or beginning lesson, so at least in my position it looks like this topic is aimed at those who are beyond where I'm presently at, or is it? I just had an idea for a chart.

They have a combat/carry trigger job available as well..speak to Kyle or Scott.

Once you have or have had any trigger work done you would be well advised not to shoot anyone with that sidearm because the lawyers will find out and it will not go well for you. The trigger job on the XDs dramatically changes the trigger. Aside from lightening the trigger pull the Springer Precision kit takes out about half the take up travel and half the reset travel. Working on the XD trigger is way different than taking a little creep out of a 1911 trigger. zdog Does shooting someone with 12lb trigger make it any more legal? That's like saying if you practice, it's intent.

I can't tell when firing fast splits whether my trigger control is good until after the fact, I'm too busy focusing on putting the front sight where it needs to be..I can't have both...at the same time, and hope to be competitive. Fast split trigger control would be different when not rushed by a timer that seems to be stuck in fast forward. These are my observations, and probably tell the advanced shooter how long I've been at it..not long. Don't get me wrong, I know what a good shot is supposed to feel like..it seems impossible at match speed to me. That is another topic..and another thread.

I would assume around 3.5 lbs, or another option is to call Scott at Springer, and tell him what your needs are..I'm confident he can help.

+1 Downrange? Sorry..I couldn't resist!

I didn't mean to derail the thread..please continue.

Well, we should be able to see that the trigger control sucks...by calling the shot. Calling the shot is the observation of what is happening. (Kinda like the difference between a steering wheel and rumble strips on the side of the interstate, perhaps?) I understand it's awareness, but the mind can only focus on one thing..I get that it should be the sights..but you cannot subconsciously pull a trigger either.

Can I be the fly in the ointment? Calling shots, or seeing the sights lift mean nothing if trigger control sucks?

This will make it better: http://shop.springerprecision.com/product.sc?productId=10&categoryId=10

Through repitition I have learned to trust what I see.

You can say that again! (Okay) And never forget to be open to that in every technical realm - bullet weight, spring weight, sight dimensions, etc. ... By sight dimensions I assume you mean diameters up front and width on the back?

Thanks!!