jdknotts1

I think a lot of times the person asking wants to hear what the want to hear. I was the same way I wanted sub moa accuracy but the amount of money and time I put into getting that frankly was a waste and I should have been practicing shotgun loading or something else that I needed more improvement in. Personally I am happy with 1.5 moa now although I can get my loads down to just under 1MOA with the right bullets. Thanks for giving your advice so freely to us new guys. Pat You're right. I think I started the thread knowing what I wanted to do. Just wanted to hear some reinforcement. But I was shocked when I heard the 2moa. I would never imagine the best guys in the country are winning with that kind of accuracy. I think I have some potential to be a pretty good 3gunner. Looking to be exact on things I think will take out variables I can't control after the buzzer goes off. +1 about the advice for the new shooters. I really do appreciate all the help I've gotten from this site

Good to know about the equipment issues. I do have a JP brake on there now. As far as where I'm going from here, I am taking the rifle out and shooting it from 100-400yds in a couple weeks. With a 100yd zero, I should be able to see the drop at the other ranges. If that matches (or comes close) to the reticle on my MTac, I will be able to compare it to my notes on how the reticle is mapped out correct? A better way to save time/headaches? Out of curiousity, why would I want to test loads out of a different rifle if this is what I'm going to shoot at the matches? Even with same length and twist, don't different rifles shoot sometimes drastically differnet due to harmonics and such?

That's my answer too but it is too dam easy. Patrick If I'm going to handload, no way I would settle for a 2moa load. Especially using matchking bullets. You would do very well to pay heed to the advice of the above two posters. Combined they have more match wins than you could dream of and you would be hard pressed to find better rifleman anywhere. They never mentioned settling at all. They simply indicated a limit, within which they have aptly demonstrated that limit is sufficient to win matches. Assuming you are accurate as to which shots were fliers, all the loads in your examples are sub MOA. How much more load development do you want to do to chase fractions of an inch. If your intention is to do so, then the first step would be to shoot it out of a more suitable rifle as a 6920 was never meant to be a precision gun, nor is it optimal for 3 gun with the carbine length gas system and full weight bolt/carrier/buffer. That being said if your intention is to find a load that matches a BDC then the work you have done so far has very little value. Based on your criteria, not having the MV leaves you no ability to choose from the above loads regardless of their accuracy. When you get the chrono and have some MV data you can then make some choices. Being a 16" gun I doubt you are getting 2800 fps with the 68's. You need to at least 2850 with the 69's to match the reticle and that will be pushing very hard in any 16" barrel. This is what I need to hear. I have no idea as to the things you mentioned. The carbine length gas system, full weight buffer/carrier/bolt? I have no idea what that stuff has to do with shooting. I don't doubt it plays it's part, I just have no idea what part. I'm a total noob to all of this. And I didn't want to sound as if I was doubting browndog or the other who said about 2moa. That just doesn't seem worth it putting time and effort into developing a load

I appreciate your input. But I just can't see spending all the time it takes to reload for 2moa. Do you reload? When you hit 2moa do you just accept it and stop testing? I'm looking for the happy median. I was quite surprised when I was getting the consistency I got with these first test batches.

That's my answer too but it is too dam easy. Patrick If I'm going to handload, no way I would settle for a 2moa load. Especially using matchking bullets.

I have access to a chrono. It is a friends and I can use it as long as I know ahead of time. I agree about the use of it. Can tell you a lot of info with SD and such. I did buy the MTac new. The BDC says it matches up with a 68gr HPBT .355BC, going 2850fps. I'm thinking if I can get the POI to match up +/- an inch on each of the points. One inch at each would be PLENTY in my mind. How much accuracy should I sacrifice for that BDC? As you can see from the photos, My worst group was well within MOA or Minute of Steel so to speak. I am going to a 600yd range in the next few weeks. I'm going to take the loads and a chrono, and shoot them at 3-400yds to get a better idea. BTW, I swapped out my MTac and put on a Leupold 6.5-20x for the load testing. I wanted to ensure I had a consistent point of aim for each shot.

Did some shooting today and got some pretty good results. I was shooting out of a Colt LE 6920, 16"bbl, 1:7 twist, using 69gr SMK and Varget powder. I did not have the chrono out there so I am guessing velocity by looking at the Sierra load data. My question is, how much accuracy should I sacrifice for a higher velocity? I want the load to match my BDC on my Burris MTac as close as possible. The most accurate load I shot today was about 250fps slower than my target velocity of around 2800fps. I know accuracy is supreme, but if I have to continue to use Kentucky windage the accuracy aint gonna help me much. Take a look and tell me what you think.

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A little load testing today. Ended up getting a double from using the 205M primers. Guess I will be switching to another primer. Any recco's? Here are my groups @100yds. I didn't chrono. Question is, for 3gun, how much accuracy can/should you sacrifice for a higher fps? From the groups, the best two I got were on the highest end and the lowest end. Thats a big difference in fps. Using Sierra's load data, I estimate the differnce to be 250fps. Once I do some more testing with a chrono, and at 2-300 yds, I will have some better data.

I figured out the shellplate. Tightened it down enough to allow it to spin, but no wobble. And the banging of the brass in the dies I do believe its the dies. I had RCBS dies for the .223. I bought a dillon taper crimp and universal decapper. It is obvious they have a much larger "funnel" area to allow a bit more variance while the case is ascending. Problem is, I really dont feel like spending the money on a Dillon rifle set now that I've already bought the taper crimp. $145 for two dies and a third I dont need? And they not even competition dies... The SS600, I think the problem was mentioned here earlier. I swaged a few cases and noticed material covering the inside of the flash hole. I do believe it is burrs left over from the drilling out of the flash hole. I can't figure out why this wouldn't be true on most all cases though. I do not plan on going as far as deburring the flash holes. I only plan on using this brass once. Have a good supply and don't feel like picking any up.

varget buring comp Check it out

What problems do the soft brass cause? I only plan on loading any of these cases one time. I have no intention of picking up any of them.

You're right. They are 205M. Damnit about the brass. Figures, free brass in unlimited quantities... Has to be junk right...

Just getting started reloading for my carbine for shooting 3 gun. I have a Colt LE6920, 16" bbl, 1:7 twist, JP Comp, and I plan on using 69gr SMK bullets. Below are a few questions. 1. I have about 3k pieces of brass that I get for free. Once fired, from the range. The headstamps are 223 REM FC NT. I have heard the "FC" makes this brass really horrible. Blowing out primers and seizing up the trigger. Anyone have a history with this stamp? I don't want to waste time prepping a bunch of it if its only going to give me problems. 2. At a gunshow recently I purchased 2k Federal 210M primers. Then I read they are too soft, just fine, will cause trip fires, blow out, etc... Anyone have SPECIFIC experience with them in an AR15? I read all about guys "hearing" people having problems with them. I would like to hear, GOOD OR BAD, experience with them. 3. Varget Powder.... With my 16" bbl, and the 69gr bullets, will I have problems burning up my comp? I read a thread that had pictures of a guys comp burning and deteriorating from the Varget. I only bought a lb of it so I wont have any problem switching to something else (AA-2520, TAC, etc) if there will be problems. Thanks for any advice or warnings.

I get a good bit of horizontal shift between 55gr and 69gr bullets. For the little 3gun I've shot so far, I have been using 55gr on the hoser targets and the 69gr on anything 100yds and beyond. I shoot a Colt 6920 with a 1:7 twist. I've heard that shooting the 55gr will tend to foul the barrel very quickly and diminishing the accuracy. Any truth to this? Is the reason for the horizontal shift because of the fast twist destabilizing the smaller bullet? Like a wobbling football? If there is any truth behind the fouling, I will discontinue the use and move to something a bit bigger for the hoser targets.

Someone has to have an idea...

The brass tends to tilt both with and without primers. The primers are always seated below flush so I doubt that is a cause. I tightened down the shellplate as much as I can while still being able to turn it with ease. Seems to be a little better. On the Super Swage, I have about 3k pieces of the same headstamp brass. Wish the design of the Swage allowed a little longer throw on the handle. Seems like the brass is getting stuck on the swaging rod sticking out a tad from the flat metal piece. Got it to where it will swage 80% of the brass as is. Guess I will toss the rest. Almost unlimited supply so if I lose a little, no big deal.

The brass is all the same. All REM FC NT brass I get from work. Primer pockets crimped. I guess I can see there could be some material after the factory drills out the flash hole. But wouldn't this be true to most all brass? Is this a common issue with the super swag 600?

Super Swage 600: Got a super sawge 600 for xmas to swage .223 brass. Followed diections, and adjusted the rod to give as little swage as needed to insert a primer with ease. It will swage two or three cases with no problem then can't fit a case in to be swaged. When I adjust the rod out farther to allow all the cases to fit in I don't get enough swage. Why would one case fit in and not another? Doesn't seem that OAL would have anything to do with it being the case is supported from the inside. I can't see swaging thousands of rounds using this tool if it finicky like this. Universal Decapping Die: Bent the decapping pin during loading operations. Are the decapping pins covered under the Dillon "if anything breaks they replace" warranty? 550: I've had my 550 for awhile and loaded a few thousand rounds of pistol with very few probelms. Now that I have started reloading .223/5.56, I'm seeing it is very different. I can't seem to get the shellplate adjusted to where it holds the cases straight up and down. This problem is linked to the last prolem. The cases seem to lean while I'm pulling the handle, then the tops are hitting the different dies, causing the powder drop to throw different charges and bending/gouging the necks of the cases. I need to guide the cases up everytime so they don't hit the dies. Is this common? If so, I may just say screw it and reload pistol only. It is a real PITA. Help to fix this (if fixable) would be GREATLY appreciated.

At local matches I try to DQ one of our better shooters every time I DQ a newbie just to make sure they don't get discouraged. LMAO. Awesome.

JD, those instances may very well have happened exactly as you interpreted from video or still images. But, the problem with both of these medias is they are only 2 dimensional and it's just as likely that due to depth the safety issue did not occur. I agree with you though- all competitors must be treated equally in all respects. I would post a link to the videos, but I would rather not point to any particualr shooters. It is obvious the muzzle was pointed 180deg from the target. I shot the match and remember the particular stage very well. When one is facing the target, and transition to the rifle from the sling, and the barrel gets pointed behind them, there is no doubt the safety issue occured. Another instance I have only heard about, not a saftey issue, is when a shooter at a shoot off, has to come forward on his own to report a procedural error not reported by the RO/SO. Kudos to the shooter. An honorable thing to do. But why wouldn't the staff make the call on the scene? This is a sport where every episode of 3GNation says they want to bring new shooters to the table. If new shooters aren't given the same opportunities everyone else has, it can deter many from continuing on after they start.

I do hear there are two types of shooters. I do not look forward to the day when (if) it happens to me. $300 match fees, I hope I don't have a meltdown.

I'm new to the sport, but one thing I've seen that really has had me going lately. The idea that a "pro" shooter can get away with with a serious safety violation that would have me sent home in a heartbeat. I've watched at least three videos and seen one picture of "pros" sweeping RO/SO's and continuing on with the stage without a word said to them. I can see loading an extra round in the SG by accident and no one catching it. Muzzle going 180deg from the target? Unacceptable...

With a +2 on an M4....you should be able to load 9 in the tube, 1 on the carrier and 1 in the pipe for a total of 11 at the start (which would be more than tac allows). Oh wait, I see what you are saying......you can put 8 in the tube, 1 in the pipe; then at the buzzer, load one more before you shoot. Is it worth it? Sometimes. Even the guys that can load 2 or 3 more at the buzzer, don't always do that. Remember, it's all about strategy with your own particular weapon and loading after the buzzer.....still takes time; and you can't be holding on to shells at the start anyways, you have to take shells off your belt (or other areas that you have the shells). Putting a +2 on your m4 worth it? probably. Putting a +1 on your M4? Definately. You need to get it to 8+1 with out having to resort to the ghost load everytime (IMHO). Tim My thoughts are, for stages that require the pipe to be empty, I will need to ghost load. If I don't, I will need to hit the button to get a shell on the lifter before I can chamber a round. Might not take much time, but it is time nonetheless. As far as starting loaded, I may not ghost load, but then I will only be able to put one more at the buzzer. So, at $75, do you think its worth it? I dunno. I'm a totall noob to this.