Vlad
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Posts posted by Vlad
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This is clearly drifting off the original topic and for that I appologize.
Vince pointed out one of the real problems with the rules. It seems that the system is setup to reward gun makers for selling the magic combination of features regardless if such a firearm makes any sense for any other application. Leaving aside the opaque (to me) logic by which the G34 (sold as a tactical model in the US) is deemed unsuited while the SP-01 (I'll bet a box of ammo that S stands for Sport) is consider suitable before it is even commercially real, the system is bound to give rise to the $2000 IPSC production race gun. It encourages an equipment race at the maker level and forces competitors to shoot with a (perceived or real) inferior gun or choose from a small list of expensive custom made factory guns which is what they will be with no real production numbers limit, we shouldn't fool ourselves. Basically as long as the gun is double action (which means something different in the days after the Glock then it used to mean to grandpa) and it is made by some manufacturer it is ok. This places the entire division in the hands of the manufacturers and removes any reasonable level of control from the shooters.
I do have to ask what defines a manufacturer. Can a custom gunsmithing shop decide to build from scratch the perfect gun and only build them one at a time as ordered? I can see a small company start building a $2000 production model, modular and with every option known to man as OFM options which they will combine to your wishes. Assuming that gun meets all the specs of a production gun we will end up with an equipment race anyway unless IPSC decided based on some unknown method that Gun X shouldn't be put on the list and doing that just because the rules are lacking seems somewhat unfair.
When it comes to the issue of finishes, it seems that we are again handing a check to the makers. If my gun is blued who cares who reblues it? Is it not an equipment race to require shooters to pay a lot more for the same service? Most manufacturers charge A LOT more for their services. Further if the justification is that a certain finish is not a "production" finish and hence not allowed, then is my rusted gun a production finish? After all they don't sell a rust finish. What if I scratch my finish? They don't sell scratched guns either, or at least they shouldn't.
If the finish wear out twice a year and it costs $300 how is that not an equipment race? What if the company is only an importer and can not reproduce the finish localy? I can't send my gun to a different country to have it refinished so my choice is to just buy a new one. How is that not an equipment race?
Regardless what the original purpose of the division was, the world evolves and it would be dangerous to continue changing rules around to reenforce some original misconseption as opposed to seeing what the shooters want. Lets face it, IPSC shooters are gun enthusiasts, one and all. They like to tinker and poke at their gear. The DA issue was a real one and now DA guns have a home (some of them anyway) but that doesn't mean that people don't want to still tinker with them.
You list some numbers from international matches. Leaving aside weather they are meaningfull (the expense of attending such matches is such that a certain financial status or sponsorship is requiered for most), the numbers for production had nowhere to go but up. It is a new division with guns that couldn't be used anywhere else, so growth was inevitable.
The cracks in the wall are however obvious with things such as the G34 and the SP-01 or the similar EAA models. If the shooters were so happy with the guns they could have under the rules why are they buying the new models which cost more and are designed specifically for IPSC? You have moved the race from the control of the shooters and you handed it to the manufacturers and that is much worse, in my opinion. I can spend a pile of cash to get a gun with a trigger job done by a factory gunsmith on a different continent but I can not spend a smaller pile of cash to have it done by a local gunsmith. I think it is bad policy and it is a bad bussiness practice in the long run.
Clearly, I'm also not alone.
Vlad
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During the lecture, before the shooting began, my friend points to a couple of IPSC target-shaped pieces of steel set up 95 yards away. He explains that only 3 people in his agency (out of approx. 105) can hit those at that distance. He draws, aims, and “Clang!”
I'm not trying to discount your or his talent in the least, but does anybody with a "C" card or above even think that's remotely challenging? That's a fairly easy parlor trick from the 200 yard line.
I guess thats why people state (and some even in this thread) that the average C or B shooter is head and shoulders above average gun owner when it comes to shooting skills. The first time I shot a long range standards type of classifier I had something like 8 misses and wondered how anyone ever hits at 50 yards. Last time I was mad at myself for missing one and I knew I did it as soon as I let the shot go but Virginia told me I couldn't make it up.
Vlad
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Not for nothing but it is not all about aesthetics. I guess if you only shoot a plastic gun out of a plastic holdster you may never see this, but my steel framed gun in contact with my kydex holdster plus LOTS of draws results in worn out finish on frame. At that point my choices are A) because my gun is now exposed to rain, sweat and crud face the fact that it will rust,
have it refinished by the factory with their propriatory finish as often as necessary maybe as often as twice a year or C) buy a new gun. None of this options are very friendly or keeping competition alive. I've heard it said that this should make the manufacturers produce products that we want, but thats a bit of bull in my opinion because competition guns are not always good "real" guns regardless of the game rules. That finish which wears quickly in the IPSC world may be a perfectly good one for a carry gun which doesn't get exposed to the same amount or type of wear. At the same time that chrome finish that a training/practice/competition gun would prefer may be tactically inferior to the baked on plastic finish the factory puts on it. However the finish provide no competitive advantage and only makes it CHEAPER to maintain and own the gun not more expensive.
I will also like to point out that there is an HUGE aftermarket market and it is not driven by IPSC shooters, it is driven by the millions of gun owners who own production guns and like to add bits to them. There are 5 types of wrap around grips not because USPSA shooters want them, but because day to day folks do. So if you are trying to have a divisions in which "real" production guns as owned by the folks out there can shoot then the current aproach is flawed.
As far as I can tell the current rules pretty much seem to try to make Production the Glock division. I hate to say this but there needs to more input into this division from countries where people actually own guns, keep them at home, and get to carry them.
I'm no trying to start a fight or anything, I just think there is a growing cultural divide here. Where I live I can go to the corner mainstream sporting goods store (not a gunshop, but a place I can buy hand weights, bikes, and golf clubs) and purchase adjustable fiberoptic sights for a glock and multiple types of finger grooved wrap around grips for multiple types of guns. That market is driven by the reality of gun ownership in the mainstream. We also get lots of new shooters at our club. Just two days ago we had SEVEN new shooters at our small indoor practice match. Out of the new shooters we have about a third would shoot Open by the IPSC rules with what a the average person would think of as a DA or DA/SA Production gun. We can ask them to remove their grips, or whatever doodads for the most part but for the guys with ported factory guns we can't tell them to buy a new barrel we can only tell them to buy a new gun.
Despite an obvious trend to the opposite I would hope that IPSC/USPSA would be more concerned with attracting new shooters and keeping them then with with weather a $5 bit of plastic alters some fictional balance. If folks like Dave S. can kick butt so amazingly with a stock gun do you really think he will be threatend by a shooter with a glock plug or a guy with a trigger job? I would almost buy the equipment race argument if the pricing was such that a race was rational but in this case it is inverted. It is cheaper to modify some production gun I already have to make it competitive then buy a new one that is so out of the box. A lot of new shooters have to modify their guns DOWN not UP to compete and in my personal opinion that is bordering on lunacy.
Vlad
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Hey don't make fun of point shooting!
We actually have an older gentleman who shows up at our practice matches who can aim and all that, but also just point shoots at open target and gets his A's. Apparently he practices at home with his .38 and primer driven plastic bullets shooting at empty cereal boxed. And then he somehow translates that to shooting a single stack Colt. Not my way but it works for him.
Vlad
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Odd but I don't know what they base that on. All the local Sports Authority's and Dick's around here have them out on the shelf, P99, 1911s, S&Ws, and full size M16 with plastic shots.
Vlad
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Thanx Jake, USPSA just posted the score today 62.4886 helping me to B class.
Vlad
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Yay .. I just made B in production, which kinda worries me because I normaly shoot in the C's. And one of my last classifiers was an A. Yeek! Though I think the number are better then my normal performance at least I can strive to keep up appearences.
Vlad
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On both guns the barrels can be removed with ease. Also a lot of people (including top rimfire shooters) recommend never cleaning your bore on .22s. If you want to clean your bores but not take the barrels off the guns then invest in bore snakes or a patch worm or an Otis cleaning kit. All of those are pull though cleaning implements and the last two allow you to use whatever brushes and patches you want, while the boresnakes do both without any other accessories.
Vlad
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I want to play golf with them, too. I never steped on a golf course in my life, but if they give out Glocks I might pick it up!
Thumbs up for the Sarge!
Vlad
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No seriously, isn't anyone worried about the backstop in that first photo? I mean knife throwers at the circus have been using pretty ladies for a while now and at the range shown in the second picture the shooter would have to be an exeptionaly bad shot to hit the target holder, but how could you not hit the building behind the target in the first photo?
I guess when you have more then 1 billion people life is cheap, but I suspect shooting pedestrians and grandma while she is making soup may be a bit out of the norm even in China.
Vlad
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Forget the target stands, some are so expensive there are some people I would use first. But I would be more concerned about the price of dirt, when you start using inhabited city blocks as your back berm.
Vlad
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I also have the Rydon but I think the insert is too small as well. I had the lens cut for the proper PD but I can see too much of the insert rims. It doesn't bother me much while shooting but I notice it when I just hang out and with the clear lense I look funny because you can see the small insert. But I look funny anyway so that doesn't bother me.
As far as I can tell a lot of the models use the same insert. The RB3 uses a different layout and that might work better for long pupil distance folks. BTW, mine is 65 to give you an idea what they don't work for.
Vlad
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Accoridng to EO, the electronics are different and as far as I understand the military version is basically filled in with some for of glue, to make it even more shock proof. Plus the military versions have the metal hood which can not be retrofited on the civilian version. I'm actually considering one myself and I think I'm going to go with the military N-type battery non-nightvison model.
Vlad
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I do check my extractor when I clean the gun including taking it out, cleaning it, wipping it dry and putting it back in. With a clean gun, it is hard to see how I would get enough crud and oil in there after 2 rounds.
Man, you make it sound like it's real easy to take it out. Or, is it? Figured you just drive the pin out from the top of the slide?
Thanks.
Oh yeah. Just drive the pin out from the top and the extractor and its spring are free. It is so easy there is no reason not to clean it as part of the normal cleanup.
Vlad
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Now that EC's CZ is currently in my hands (on loan, thanks doc!) you'll be hearing from me if the problem occurs.
Vlad, I was just wondering, with the stuck-case-left-in-the-chamber problem, did you notice some lube getting into your extractor claw when you cleaned it?
Not really. What made the problem hard to deal with is that it would happen at the first mag from a clean gun or maybe one the last stage of a 7 stage match or anywhere in between. I do check my extractor when I clean the gun including taking it out, cleaning it, wipping it dry and putting it back in. With a clean gun, it is hard to see how I would get enough crud and oil in there after 2 rounds.
I think it had to do with the load vs the spring ratio, but I'm not sure yet. I'm leaving it the way it is for a bit and see what develops.
Vlad
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just curious but why do you need extra power mag springs?
Well, I don't know that I NEED them. The symptoms of my problems were that the top round in the mag was moving foward as if dragged by the slide and given that my problem started as my original mag springs were aproaching their end of life I decided to buy new springs. As I shoot Production with only 10rd in the mags as per USPSA but I use 15rd mags I figured that the extra power springs will provide a bit of extra push without fully loading the mags.
However, it may be that with the extrapower mags I get to much upward pressure when I do load them all the way and now I am pushing the top round too hard against the slide and getting it dragged forward anyway. I had one more failure during the second day of the 3gun match but I know that I limped wristed that one as I was shooting it one handed through a low port at a funny angle. I will report back if the gun works well in Production conditions from here forward.
Vlad
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Just an update, after I established that with a 10lb recoil I have no problems what so ever, I upped my load to around 138pf and replaced the recoil spring with a shockbuff and a 12lb spring from which I cliped a few coils to make it fit. I then shot a 7 stage (6 field courses and 1 classifier) with 0 problems. I cleaned my gun and this weekend I have been using it in a 3gun match but I did have 2 or 3 failures. However these failures though similar with my original one happen within the first couple of rounds in the mag and the mags are filled up with 15 rounds and HARD to load with the extra power mag springs. They push up really hard so I think that may be part of it right now. If the gun works with 10rds loaded I'm happy.
Vlad
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If you think that the Heinz money are not politically driven and that anything coming from that group is anything but militant lunacy, then this is clearly a issue of belief for you, less then one of fact. It is my policy to not argue religion with people, so I respectfully bow out.
Vlad
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2003Gas Tax info can be seen by State with this link. I'm not sure where you got the 65% or $1.30 of every gallon sold are taxes?
So on the average the direct taxes are %40 to %50 (state +18.5 federal). How about corporate taxes, transport taxes, and so on? Just because it is not part of the simple breakdown it doesn't mean you are not paying it and it isn't a tax.
I'm not quite sure what the source of oil has to do with the rest of this thread. Is it cleaner if comes from Texas or Russia?
As for the books you listed I think you need to check your sources on the authors lack of bias. I have no idea when it was the last time someone called McGovern unbiased and Nestle is an out right loon who has made it clear that she is more concerned with telling you what to eat and taxing your "bad choices" while fighting the corporate world, more then with weather what you eat is good for you. Whatever experitse she has, has been clearly overiden by her political drive.
As for De Soto, last I check he maintained that what the third world need it as more property rights and more basic capitalism and greed then anything else, so I'm not sure what your point is.
Vlad
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I shot this earlier this month with my CZ. 86points in 18.73 for 4.59HF. I was not unhappy being that I'm unclassified in production and only a lowly C in L10.
Vlad
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Well, hold a min. gmw2b and SIG Lady have some valid complains but they have not much to do with the state of nature, and more with financial matters. I'm sorry SIG Lady, but none of your last complains mean anything more then "I need more money" and I can certainly sympathize, but that doesn't mean that the world in trouble.
Look folks, the price of gas has NOTHING to do with us running out. We have enough petrolum to continue increasing our consumption at the current rate and still be ok for a hundred more years, and that is in deposits we know about. The price of oil is a geo-political variable, and controled output commodity. Welcome to the monopoly folks. Further, take a look at the price of gas and break it down. Almost 65% of it (last I checked) was TAX, not value. Lets put it in perspective. For $2 you get a gallon of fluid which has been extracted across the world, shipped here, refined, tested, transported again, doubled in price by taxes, and then put into your car, and it moves you, your car, and the crap in it for about 20 miles. Also for $2 I can go to my local convinience store and buy a gallon of water poured in from the hose by local discount destributor, and if I walk 20 miles I proabably need 2 or 3 such bottles on a nice day, nevermind a hot day. Gas is VERY cheap folks, its just not as cheap as it was 10 years ago.
You want to rebel against modern man and his smelly technology? Feel free. Here we go, buy a horse. Of course a horse costs about as much as car to maintain and feeding him is more expensive then buying gas. Your car also carries more then one person and unless you buy a convertable, doesn't make you stay out in the rain. And then there is polution. Perhaphs you would like to know how sidewalks came to be? I'll tell ya, they were away to avoid walking through the horse shit. For me, I'll take the cancer rate as caused by polution rather then the typhoid, and cholera rates of years past (those had a lot to do with the horse shit and the like)
Look, I'm not saying we should rape nature for no good reason. Raz has a very valid point about some of the chemicals we play with and the lack of care we exhibit with them. I go hiking and I pick up the trash the rest of the people leave behind. But there is a difference between being carefull and screaming "Death to the human race" because the latest coffehouse politics dictate that humans are the evil upon the planet.
I too want to live on a 40acre farm and only see my neighbors when I choose. But the facts remain that the world population grows. We can mope on the couch and complain, and call for the death of the humanity, OR we can do something about it (and I don't mean going out and causing the death of half the human population). Maybe your Tolkien like philosphy makes you see technology as the big evil. The truth is that technology is the only saviour we have. Note that I'm refering to us the human race. The planet is fine. it has survived volcanos, plate tectonics, meteor strikes, ice ages, solar cycles, gravitational shifts, and many more but somehow if I stop recycling the planet will crumble?
I worry that too many people have a very idilic view of the uncorrupted past. Too many folks complain about air quality without knowing what the mediaval village smelled like. To many people complain about disease without remembering what true pestilence was like over the majority of human time span. Some bemoan the amount of garbage we generate. I say make more, your grand-grand-kids will thank you for being thoughtfull enought to provide them with a easy way to mine resources. Its easy enough to stay home, recycle (even though it is actually worse for the planet), and complain how other are not doing their part. It is a lot harder to go out there and figure out a real solution, and do the hard math of figuring out what the real problem is, and figure out a way to make life better for animals AND people (who are also part of nature) and not just wish that half of them were dead.
Now, can someone please help me down from this horse? It is the tallest beast I have ever seen and I really need to take out the recycling before the smoke belching truck comes to pick it up. Anyone? Help!
Vlad
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I know my scores have gone up as I have gone to a softer load (though my gun has more problems with the soft loads, but that is another thread). How much of that is psychosomastic and how much is real I do not know. Does it matter?
I shoot a CZ75B with 147FMJ over 3.1gr of Tightgroup (128PF) or 3.2gr (132PF) or 3.3gr (138PF). The 3.1 is one soft load and the last classifiers I shot where around 70% (not posted on uspsa.org yet so I'm guessing based on scores posted in the other forum category). I am not yet classified in production but I used to shoot solid C scores. I think the soft loads combined with my new glasses helped.
The rest of the rig is CR speed belt, 2 Uncle Mike's double mag holders and Cen-Dex Storm for the holster.
Actually your test would be interesting. Maybe shooting an El Prez over and over again alternating ammo would be something to try, but I suspect it would screw with your timing so I'm not sure how much I would trust the results. I suspect the mental game and the confidence based on the lesser recoil and blast may make more of a difference then the actual recoil and blast.
Vlad
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Vlad....what has the price of gasoline been doing? What about the cost of a gallon of milk? Geez...the price for a quart of drinking water is out of this world! What part of the equation is hard to understand?
Actually you point out some of my favorites. The price of oil is still dirt cheap. You don't believe me? Do the math or look it up here. The short of it that despite the cries of record highes, the price of oil right now is about 40% of what it was in 1980.
Milk? Talk to your senator. The price of milk has to do with price controls and "pork" in the farming industry. Water? Actual drinkable water from your faucet is cheaper then ever before (if you account for inflation). If you want to drink water from France and Fiji, then you are paying a tax for being a snob and a transportation fee.
BTW, I highly recommend that everyone watch the Penn and Teller show called Bullshit! and pay attention the water, recycling, and enviormental scare episodes.
The rest Raz addressed so I'll leave it alone.
Vlad
Edited cause I left out some words and diminished the sense/words ratio.
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Sorry guys, but this stuff has been going around for years. Maybe you want to go back and look at all the noice about the "Population Bomb" about 20 years ago. According to those expert reports we are all dead and starving right now.
Whenever someone write a book/report/paper/article the predicts the end of the world/humanity/nature/eco-system you have to ask yourself a couple of question.
1) Does the author have an interest scaring you?
2) Is his/her interest actually to protect something or to affect social change?
3) How good is the data?
The last question is a lot more relevant then you may think. A lot of this studies assume 0 growth in productivity which is insane. For example the population scare crap of the 80's was using food production numbers from the 70's and assuming no change. However by the 90's we were using GPS guided farming equipment and bio-enginered foods and now the world has about 120% of the food need it to feed everyone above standard nutritional requierments (if it get to who needs it is a political issue). For example the US is the number 1 food exporter in the world and the arable land is less the %20 with permanent crops on the less then 0.2%. And most of this land stays unused anyway, by government grants. Almost every tree we cut down, we grow for that purpose.
The article about "ecological footprints" forgets that technology reduces that footprint. If you had to farm the land with 18th century tech it would take a lot of land to feed a family. Unfortunatly more then half the world still does, and a good portion of the other half its inching its way through the mid 20th century tech. Taking any statistical number and assuming it will not change for 30 years is the worst kind of "science".
Vlad
have it refinished by the factory with their propriatory finish as often as necessary maybe as often as twice a year or C) buy a new gun. 
Classic targets at the Nationals
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So tell me why they rule. Can you make an argument for it? Seriously, I'm asking an honest question as I have never shot them. I get the PC thing in countries where you can't use something else, but that aside why do they rule? My position is that if you want to shoot a Practical sport then some practical bits should be around. Heck, shape them like a deer or a pig if you must, but who the heck hunts turtles, because that is the only thing they look like. If you want a shooting challange, I'm ok with it, lets add a A+ zone over the heart on a Metric and score it 6 or 7 points. That should do it.
Vlad