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I'm not experiencing difficulties with the black bullets in my gun. . . Bear Creak 230 grain moly coated 4.0 grains clays L 773.6 H 791.2 A 781.4 ES 17.55 SD 5.19 I don't like scrubbing the barrel though afterwards. The local rep gave me a test batch of 100, so I started testing.

My shirts aren't particularly loose, it's just I'm super skinny and everything fits on me like a coat hanger.

I got out to the range the other day to find out how slow I really am. . . So, I decided to start my dry practice campaign immediately with Steve Anderson's book excercise 1, 2, and 3 basically drawing. What I discovered is I spend more time re-tucking in my shirt than actually drawing and I really really find out how slow I am. My thumb gets hung up in my shirt a lot and it slows me down. When I finally get the gun out, I spend a minimum of 3x the draw time tucking in my shirt again. I stuck with it for hours and hours because I read that one shouldn't really concern yourself with gear at first. That's not the limiting factor. But I wasn't sleeping too well so I thought I'd tinker a bit. I'm using el cheapo Bladetech injection moulded paddle holster w/ el cheapo blade-tech moulded double tek lok mag carriers with a 1 1/2" leather gun belt. So I decided to take the paddle off the holster and replace it with the tek lok from the mag carrier. . . and wow. . . that helped a lot. I have 90% fewer tangles in my shirt. My par time is 1.5 seconds for the draw to 15 foot lower A with the old system. I don't really see how I'm going to get to an honest .8 seconds even if I shoot without a shirt on, but I guess hours and hours of constant practice might help. I'm looking forward to trying again with my new improved cheap rig. So, now I must stay motivated. I feel that even if I can't put a gazillion rounds down range to shoot fast, there should be nothing stopping me from being able to draw to the 1st shot, run, reload, and turn decently. I should work on those

I'm trying to figure out how slow my barrel is compared with other barrels. . . anyone Chrono WWB through 5" 1911's? i'd like to compare. Mine goes ~805 fps

I had the same problem. . . barrel hood welded and re-cut by a smith fixed it. . . shoots really straight now.

I am using Winchester primers right now, but they were purchased at discount at a gun show and they are the old type (silver) and I have no clue how old they are. I have almost used them up, so next chance I get, I should head out to the gun show and pick up a sleeve of new winchester (brass colored) primers and see if that makes a difference. OAL is ~1.22 not 1.25 . . . my books are telling me 4.0 grains of clays is max load, and I'm a bit hesitant to bump more than 4.1 grains because last time out, I was starting to get 100 fps variations and I've read that Clays gets spiky and scary at its max pressures. But you've got a lot more data and experience w/ the stuff. My reloading choices and results good/bad are my own liability, but in your experience, do you still think 4.2 is reasonably safe? -'Chung

Hello again, My trips to the range these days are few and far between. . . not good, but I made it out this weekend and dragged a couple new shooter friends out to IPSC practice, and it was fun. Which made me realize I'm brand spankin' new at this also and shooting is a lot more fun than loading. I ended up using my subcompact XD9 since I wanted my friends to actually be able to hit stuff their 1st time out. But, I was able to get more data Last time I was out, I showed some folks at the range my bullets, and they suggested crimping down more as my .471 looked like there was actually still flare on the cases. The hollowpoints seat deeper than the FMJ I suppose. So this time, I crimped everything I had down to .4685 Results are still mixed and I'm still a bit frustrated. Clays 4.025 grain Zero 230 JHP OAL 1.2275 crimp .4685 WLP primer Federal brass 10shots L 669.0 H 743.9 A 722.2 ES 74.92 SD 20.88 10shots L 680 H 747.5 A 724.0 ES 67.1 SD 21 10shots L 702.1 H 744.6 A 725.3 ES 42.51 SD 11.74 ------------------------- Clay 4.1 grain Zero 230 JHP AOL 1.2275 Crimp .4685 WLP primer Federal brass L 716.9 H 770.5 A 738.6 ES 53.67 SD 17.46 L 708.3 H 752.3 A 738.2 ES 44.03 SD 16.61 -------------------------- Titegroup 4.8 grain Zero 230 JHP AOL 1.2275 Crimp .4685 WLP primer Federal brass L 731.9 H 808.2 A 777.5 ES 76.29 SD 24.55 L 748.5 H 799.5 A 784.2 ES 51.02 SD 15.09 L 755.8 H 790.5 A 778.1 ES 34.65 SD 12.04 I thought even though I'm not able to get consistant loads in .45 ACP yet, I thought I should start shooting some groups to the best of my meager abilities right now at 25 yards to see if what I have will work. I didn't have a screwdriver on me so I wasn't able to make an upward click adjustment on the Bomar. This is with the titegroup load. I'm hoping it's good enough to trust for using for now since the loads have functioned flawlessly. This is with my arms resting on the bench and a not-too good monkey behind the trigger. The one inside the X may have been a flyer, but I'm not able to call it that well yet at this distance, so I'll assume it's not. This was the 1st time out I was able to put a decent amount of rounds down the tube, and the TG is filthy for me in this setup, I have black soot all over my hands with titegroup in .45ACP. In 9mm, the titegroup is clean, so I'm thinking I will look for other powder in .45, but I'm thinking for refining my bullet rolling process, TG and Clays should be able to tell me if I'm consistant, and right now, I'm still fighting OAL issues with the JHP bullets. I get variations between 1.225 - 1.30 on the same setting on my Lee Seating die. The powder throws are very consistant and within .1 grains every throw for the ones that I measured which is a lot right now. I'm thinking I should try either a Dillon Seating die or a Redding die. . . something designed for flat nose bullets. Other than that, in hindsight, there seems to be a pattern of the 1st shot (hand cycled) in a string to be the slow shot in my string. I'm thinking this could be due to still not having enough crimp but I guess the other cause could be barrel temp, but it's not like I'm waiting that long between strings. So, I may try to crimp down what I have a bit more and see if I get any positive changes. I think I'm moving in the right direction as I'm not seeing the HUGE like 100 FPS variations anymore. It's cut to like 70 fps More work to come. I'm not terribly pleased with myself in this .45 ACP saga, but I guess I have something shootable for now.

I just bought a Master Beta as well. . . took it to the range this past weekend, and it worked well. . . I guess temps were probably in the high 70's or low 80's, and it was sunny. I used the sun screens as provided with the unit roughly 10 feet away in direct sunlight. It works. . . the user interface is the mos cumbersome and ridiculous thing I've seen, but I don't need all the fancy functions and learning to do what I need to do was quick. I shot my reference ammo through which was some Winchester JHP. . . out of a PACT chrono, 10 shot string was 854.4 through my new Chrono, it was 854.1 I'm very pleased with the price. I hope not to be going to the chrono very often, but these days with my .45 load troubles, I seem to be out there measuring a lot. The unit is a bit slower than the PACT, but if you wait until the last shot registers before firing another one, it works very well. -'Chung

Hello, Well, it's been a while since I've gone shooting. See, I've been on this money saving kick as of late, and buying stocks. . . Because I'd been begging a chrono from local Kevin C like 4 times now, I decided it was time to get one, so I picked up a cheap Chrony Master Beta, and it worked great today. I tested my known factory load w/ it, and it seems to measure similar to the PACT Chrono I had borrowed previously. Well, the interface is the MOST confusing thing I have EVER seen. In this day and age with OS X and Vista and 1000's of cell phones and PDA's, you'd think you can find some engineer in India or China to make you a good, intuitive interface. . . ok. . . rant off. .. I'll just bring my manual everywhere. . . I tried some Bear Creek Moly Coated bullets with the same setup, and they shot beautifully. . . 4.0 grains Clays 10 shots Average 784.5 fps Low 770.5 high 799.2 ES 28.75 SD 10.81 10 shots Average 781.4 Low 773.6 High 791.2 ES 17.55 SD 5.19 This load seems acceptable enough to move on to accuracy testing for me. . . My Zero JHP loads are still all over the place. . . local guys at the range are saying I might try tightening up my crimp as suggested in here. I will try going down to .69-some on the crimp. 4.1 grains Clays Zero JHP OAL 2.227 crimp .471 ---->10 shot strings Average 741.7 L 718 H 763 ES 45.75 SD 15.81 Average 737.2 L 709.8 H 771.5 ES 61.7 SD 20.54 Average 744.1 L 691.5 H 825 ES 133.5 SD 36.31 Ok. . . I'm about to pull my hair out . . . well, actually, I shaved it off in 1994, but that's beside the point. First off, it's still not making major, and I don't know if I want to push 4.2 grains of Clays on a short JHP load. . . and then. . . Extreme spread of 133.5 ???!!@@#!!% Due to the fact that my titegroup loads also display this kind of varience, coupled with the fact that my TG 9mm loads run consistant, I'm arriving at the conclusion that there is something physically wrong with my 230 Grain JHP loads. My gun likes Winchester 230 grain JHP, and shoots those consistantly at ~850 fps. The OAL is shorter than mine and the crimp is very much tighter than mine. I'm going to play around with the seating depth and crimp now to see if I can't get these velocities to settle down because it doesn't seem powder specific. . . All of the Zero JHP loads are all over the place. I hope that more crimp is the key.

If you really want to hear what was going on in my head when I was building These were an attempt to make a very small robot (mecha) that still seated a minifig and still be well proportioned. My wife and I have been playing legos while watching TV at night, and she wanted a robot so the red one is hers. . . I thought it'd be fun to make a huge honkin' gun and see if it could still hold it. I think the bipod and muzzle break rocks So that one ended up being the "sniper" and I made a little red girl minifig for the pilot of course. Since the sniper needed a spotter, I built the weird grey one with wings (very similar frame so it was a quick build) . . . that one, I tried to make an M4 for it to shoot. My thinking was the "wings" could have little sensors in them to help get better data (range, wind, etc.) and could help the sniper get better hits. . . plus, provide some cover fire if needs be since the sniper's gun is so dang huge and unweildy. The other slightly larger grey one was an attempt to still seat a minifig but articulate the spine also, and man, that took forever. I really liked the way this one turned out, and tried to make an AK for it to use. Have we had our fill of geek yet for the day? Now. . .back to your scheduled programming.. .

Some of the joint techniques I'm using are fairly unconventional. . . the internet has really helped push the brick farther than the designers probably intended Lego would have you build vertically brick on brick. . . I like at all manner of odd angles.

My brother and sister didn't let me play with their legos when I was 2 years old . . . they said I'd eat them. Now, I'm still compensating. . . luckily the wife tolerates this endless time waster.

I ordered a bunch of cheap 230 grain MFS JHP. . . they chronoed at 750 fps out of my gun. Very soft feeling. ~$240 for 1000 when I ordered them.

I've loaded up about 30 bear creek black bullets. . . haven't had a chance to get back to the chrono, but I'll post how they do.

All of my loads so far have been with Speer brass. . . I just ran out of Speer, but my brass is sorted by brand.

Hmmm. . . seems I'm metering within .1 grain. I'm not sure if it's reasonable to expect more from the machine? I've been getting my settings as per Brian's recommendation of measuring 4 throws and dividing by 4 to average my way to the target setting. I don't start loading until I get about 20 throws or 5 weighings within .1 grain. My .45 loads in titegroup to this point also show the same velocity variations, however, my 9mm loads in titegroup show very consistant velocities. The one shot really really smoothed things out a lot. It seems even my OAL's have become more consistant with the One Shot, and with the case flare set to .010, I really feel the powder measure bottom out good on the down stroke. . . strange thing is primer seating feels smoother as well with lube even though I do not deprime before case cleaning. Mabe my arms aren't pulling as hard so it feels easier since I don't have to shift weight as much to change lever stroke directions. I've loaded up some more rounds and will need to visit the chrono again to see how I did this time. I also loaded up a batch of bear creek bullets. . . I got a test pack from a local rep, and I thought it might be good to see if it be the bullets that are causing my problems. Thanks for all the tips. Looks like I'm making PF no with Clays, so the powder is viable. I just need to see if I can get it consistant FPS now

Wild velocity variations continued at my last visit to the chrono. However, I shot enough rounds of this load (~50) through the chrono to get some average data. . . It seems I'm making ~750 fps with 4.1 grains. I'm having wild velocity variations however at up to 105.3 fps with the lowest of all recorded shots 688.7 fps and the highest 794 fps. I suspect I'm not dropping powder consistantly in .45 ACP. I noticed that Dillon and others on the forum strongly recommend setting the case flare to .010 or over in order to ensure full, consistant powder bar movement. I did not have my powder die set this way, and was having trouble at times getting a round into the flared case. I've made an adjustment to slightly over .010 and will run some more loads and test again. I think I'm going to back the load down to 4.05 grains of clays because a lot of folks are running FMJ at 1.25" OAL. .. and I'm using JHP at 1.227". I know this powder is fast, I probably won't see excessive pressure signs on .45 ACP primers 'til it's too late, and I don't want to push it especially if I'm having erratic powder throws. I'm also going to try some One Shot lube on the cases to get the press running a bit smoother. I've been running them dry up 'til now. Just did some powder throws: 4 4 4.1 4 4.1 4.1 4.1 4 4.1 4.1 4.05 4.05 4.05 4 4.1 4.1 4.1 4.1 4.1 4.1 4.1 4 3rd time to the chrono will be the charm

Dies are the lee 4 die set. . . (not using powder die). I think I'll keep trying with the clays to get a consistant load.

Ok. . . I installed the Uniquetek threaded inserts for the toolheads and made some more loads for chrono. I'm still having extremely erratic results in .45 ACP, but 9mm loads are beautiful . . . single digit standard deviations. . . and, my wife's 2 guns both chrono within 10 fps w/ the same 9mm loads. 3 inch XD9 subcompact and 5" 9mm 1911. XD actually shoots a little faster than the 1911. So, somethings really off w/ the .45 loads. With the same nut behind the handle, my .45 loads are erratic with standard deviations of 30.7 and extreme spreads of up to 88.4 fps. The only good thing is 4.1 grain clays loads did not blow up my gun or show signs of high pressure. . . and they mad power factor easily. 4.1 grain Clays Zero 230 grain JHP OAL 1.227 Crimp .471 Winchester large pistol primer Speer brass 10 shot string Average 751.8 fps High 782.9 fps Low 709.9 fps ES 73 SD 30.7 AD 27 10 shot string Average 742.2 fps High 779 Low 690.6 ES 88.4 SD 29.1 AD 22.1 7 shot string Average 754.2 H 769.5 L 716.4 ES 53.1 SD 18.7 AD 13.5 8 shot string Average 763.4 H 794.3 L 730.5 ES 63.8 SD 18.3 AD 13.1 Seeing fps numbers higher than I expected, I went back down to a 4.0 grain load 7 shot string (best of the bunch) A 740.1 H 755.6 L 727.1 ES 28.5 SD 10.7 AD 8.7 8 shot string A 737.6 H 777.8 L 697.1 ES 80.7 SD 27.6 AD 22.3 So, I decided I need to compare to some factory loads. . . Winchester factory 230 grain JHP 8 shot string A 854.4 fps H 865.3 L 840.7 ES 24.6 SD 9.7 AD 7.8 Winchester white box 230 grain FMJ A 807.9 H 830.1 L 779.8 ES 50.3 SD 17.5 AD 13.9 Are these numbers typical? Or should I be able to do better? My OAL's are more consistant in my .45 loads than my 9mm loads, but the 9mm is much more consistant on the chrono. I feel like I "should" be able to make better than factory loads on my press. I can't figure out how to get there right now at least with Zero bullets, Clays or Titegroup in .45 ACP.

I didn't measure, but I suspect temps were in the low 70's. . . pretty temperate. I did see that many folks are bumping the clays up a bit. I'll carefully load up a hair and chrono again.

Hi Joe D, I'm suspecting slow barrel. . . it's Kevin C's chrono. . . he's not reported discrepencies with his loads on this chrono. My 9mm Springfield also chronoed almost right at theoretical with this machine. I'm consistantly getting 35-37 fps slower than theoretical on this particular new Kart barrel w/ clays and titegroup. My starting load at 4.5 grains of titegroup under a 230 grain Zero JHP through my barrel yielded. 724 .3 FPS 166.6 PF I did not load under 4.5 grains as my manual said 4.4 grains is the minimum charge.

My barrel is a bit slow, and my clays test loads are not making power factor.. . I'm wondering what to do. Kart 5" barrel Zero 230 grain JHP OAL 1.2275" Crimp 1.471" Winchester large pistol primer 4.0 Grains Clays = 697.2 fps 160.35 PF 3.9 Grains Clays = 685.8 fps 157.73 PF 3.8 Grains Clays = 663.8 fps 152.67 PF 4 grains of clays is what all the manuals say is max load. I'm not seeing signs of excessive pressure, but I'm new to this reloading thing. I know going beyond recommended maximum load is at your own risk. . . should I abandon the Clays for this gun? Or should I try to bump it to 4.1 grains? I was able to work up to 781 fps w/ 4.8 grains of titegroup. Haven't shot for groups yet with any of the loads. Just testing to see which ones are viable.

Finally got out to the range today. . . had a lot of help from Kevin. My .45 loads chronoed all over the place, but my 9mm loads were quite good. . . I loaded the .45 test rounds 1st. . . and by the time I got around to making the 9mm loads, I was smoother on the machine. My particular .45 Kart barrel shoots a little slow with the Zero 230 Grain JHPs. Good news is, I had no function problems with my loads. .45 results 10 shots: Titegroup 4.5 grain Average 724.3 fps Extreme spread 54.7 Standard deviation 18 Average deviation 14.8 Titegroup 4.6 grain Average 738 fps Extreme spread 51.5 Standard deviation 14.8 Average deviation 11.7 (all numbers for 4.7 grain showed exactly the same as 4.6 . .. I forgot to reset the chrono. . . no data) Titegroup 4.8 grain Average 781.7 Extreme spread 59.7 Standard deviation 22.2 Average deviation 17.6 Clays 3.8 grain Average 663.8 ES 50.5 SD 16.2 AD 13.2 Clays 3.9 grain Average 685.8 ES 80.4 SD 24.2 AD 19.5 Clays 4.0 grain Average 697.2 ES 84.3 SD 28.4 AD 23.6 I've gotta tighten up these deviations and I'm fearful of my clays loads not making power factor. At 4.0 grains, I had a low of 655.1 fps and high of 739.4 fps Way too much variation for comfort. The machine operator has got to get it together! ====================== 9mm results. . . much happier Titegroup 4.0 grain Average 1024 ES 10.6 SD 3.9 AD 3.3 Titegroup 4.1 gr Average 1051 ES 30.3 SD 10.3 AD 8.2 Titegroup 4.2 gr Average 1068 ES 29.4 SD 8.7 AD 6.3

OK, I loaded up some test dummies to check OAL's. . . the unit has managed to cut my OAL variations. . . there is now a .0005-.001 difference between seating a bullet w/ all stations populated and seating with just the seating station. I tested by loading a bullet with all stations populated. . . measuring it, and then removing casings from all other stations, and then re-seating the same bullet and measuring again. Previously, this is what produced the greatest seating depth variation As for general seating variation, the run of dummies showed an improvement over my work-up load runs, but I still am seeing a .004" variation from time to time with the majority of cartridges now coming in within .001". My guess is bullet variation, seating die limitations (Lee). . . it's a toss up for me. Yes, it makes life a little easier in terms of seating die consistancy. This is with Zero Jacketed hollow points, FMJ may give more consistancy as there are less variables on the bullet tip from bullet to bullet. This mod did not make my system hold to within .001" every time. It does give me greater confidence in setup and the 1st 2 and last 2 rounds in a run. . .it also gives greater consistancy throughout the run, but not absolute consistancy.