justaute
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Posts posted by justaute
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Agreed. Troy, David, et al, did a terrific job putting the match together with limited time and resource.
USPSA needs better strategic planning, improved operations, and thoughtful leadership.
Big shout out to Troy, John, david and the set up crew, prop builders, RO's and stats people. Thank you so much for putting on a good match.
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LOL...I know you have at least one 9mm 1911 that should serve you well in this match.
Entry Form completed - check
Payment in envelope - check
Stamp attached - check
Given to my postal carrier wife to send - Check
Can't wait.
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Jake...logic, common sense, and management competence are certainly nice.
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I have the best grips, but CZC doesn't make them anymore.
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Agreed. I think common sense dictates most forms of deviation such as this. I'd submit many of the examples raised in this thread, and what I have personally witnessed, are not in accordance with the spirit of 8.2.2.
Equipment position comes into play as well. A person's arm could be out from their body or slightly in front of them when their arms are hanging naturally because the arm is resting on mags or the butt of the gun. Just sayin.
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Hear, hear.
Paul's coverage of both Nationals matches was nothing short of outstanding. Between the constant video updates and the near real-time scoring on Practiscore.com one could follow the action closely and it made for some very compelling, exciting content. Maybe you had to be a massive shooting nerd like me to appreciate it, but I doubt it. I bet even casual fans found it to be the next best thing to being at the match. For Paul to take on such a massive undertaking and to deliver it so well is incredible. I honestly think they ought to give him an award at Prod Nats, assuming he makes it.
The only thing that bugged me was that the Shooting USA cameras got to cut in front of Paul when they showed up to film the Open Super Squad. For 40 seconds worth of content that they won't show for several months it didn't seem worthwhile for them to disrupt the live feed of the match as much as they did. But then, if I were in charge I would be pushing hard to market via social media and online streaming content, and that doesn't seem like a priority of the powers that be. I don't know the ratings for Shooting USA, but I wouldn't be surprised if by the time the Nationals episode airs Paul's site doesn't have more traffic than Shooting USA has viewers.
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Agreed. Strader does deserve a lot of credit, akin to his organization of 2013 Production Nationals.
I think Strader deserves credit for (1) getting the dates for the 2014 Nats out plenty early, and (2) being willing to try something different. Most people who want to shoot a week-long Nationals can find the time and funds to make that happen, especially with this much advance notice.
Personally, I would much prefer the match be in Las Vegas because of the incredible variety of non-shooting entertainment options that venue has to offer. I know Zion Canyon is a scenic area and all that stuff, but a week in Utah sounds like dullsville to an action junky like me. I never understand people complaining about matches being held in Vegas. I understand some people don't like casinos and gambling and drinking and titty bars--OK fine, you can steer completely away from all that stuff and drive straight to the Best Western out by the range, and then hike the mountains and hit the museums during your off-time. Vegas has more to see and do than anywhere else that has a shooting range of sufficient size, and that is still true even if you never step foot inside a casino.
But anyway, I still say kudos to Phil for mixing it up.
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Step up? Definitely should.
However, how does USPSA step up when its current standing is not even adequate? Just look at the organizational support for Production Nationals.
I started shooting USPSA 2.5 years go, which is just after I shot my first pistol. I got hooked. Fast-forward to today, I am quite disappointed with the trajectory of USPSA as an organization. Fortunately, I'm sufficiently healthy to play several other sports and still compete at a relatively high level. If things don't improve, I'll just allocate more time/money/effort to those other sports.
As someone who has significant management experience in corporate operations, restructuring, and investment, my assessment of USPSA is, well, that it leaves a lot to be desired.
Sounding like USPSA (pistol) needs to step it up some, before we end up with only 3G? Just my .02 cents. With that said what can the USPSA do to get, keep maybe bring some pistol shooters back? Good guestion ?????
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I have here in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area....a result of both what 3-gun has to offer and organization's push. I'm a pistol guy, but I think USPSA is staid and unimaginative.
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Assuming WSB calls for rule #8.2.2, then no.
what about this start position?
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Let's not talk about Tori or anyone else as that will get this thread closed. In short, I believe anyone who has support hand/arm that far in front of the body is not in a legal position and should not be allowed to start the COF. And, yes, she has corrected her stance as that can be viewed in a couple of her nationals videos.
The reason of my posting the video-scenario was to generate a discussion for ruling-interpretation and consistency. I have heard people who don't think the starting position, per USPSA rules, is a big deal. If we don't have a common, at least relatively, interpretation of a rule, then we can't consistently enforce that rule. If that's the case, then let's just get rid of rules.
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What is this USPSA Production Nationals? I have never heard about it nor has any organizer actively promote it, to my knowledge. Is it like a 3-Gun Nation that I see and read about everywhere?
I have heard of US IPSC Nationals. I heard its organizer(s) run other major shooting matches at the same location and many competitors, including those from Europe, want to attend.
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Paul...terrific work, as always. I believe your work creates a lot of goodwill for USPSA and I'm hopeful it's not all for naught.
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Black Ice is now Production-legal. The only caveat is, if you use drop-offset paddle, to check whether you meet the 2" inner-belt-to-gun clearance.
FWIW...my first Black Ice was cut too low, but Blade-tech replaced it for free.
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Y'all need to stop asking for Prod Nationals information as all match details will be disseminated on the first day of shooting.
Be very, very careful, the mods and the USPSA-power are watching you. Do not ever question USPSA management.
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You're a good man. Though, I will add that I do believe in some subjective latitude, as mentioned earlier. People are built differently. That said, significant bent-arm or hand(s) in front of body just aren't cutting it to me. As you said, "what's fair is fair..."
Obsequious behavior is not in my nature.
I understand I shoot at Rio with a lot of the big names on a weekly basis! I would say something to them if I thought they were creeping. What's fair is fair...
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And I would not be surprised by that response.
Hey, if a few of the elite USPSA shooters are doing it, then it'd be safe to assume that many other shooters would do so. Many shooters want to find ways, properly or not, to speed-up their draw by a tenth or two.A response to challenging the start position in the video might be that, although the shoulder may be slightly rotated to the rear, the arm is hanging naturally.
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Therein lies the problem -- subjective interpretation. In the subject video, I see the shooter's arm/hand position much more than being tense. First, I stipulate that there should be some latitude for each shooter as we all have different physical-built. I have seen many shooters who severely bend their arm at the elbow and have their strong-hand very close to the grip. I would not interpret that as "hanging naturally", tense or not, at all.
8.2.2 says hanging naturally, NOT relaxed. If they want to have them tensed up a bit in preparation to draw the gun I do not have a problem with it.
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Interesting, I guess.
I see nothing wrong from this angle, so yes I would.
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Assuming USPSA # 8.2.2 (i.e. "...with arms hanging naturally by the sides.").
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Preamble: The shooting scenario is not a USPSA match and I am not implying anything other than using the video as a visual-aid to complement my question. The subject question has nothing to do with the shooter's shooting ability. This post is solely focused on his strong-hand/arm position prior to drawing.
Question: So, as an RO, would you begin the COF given the shooter's strong-hand/arm position? Assuming WSB of USPSA Rule #8.2.2 starting position. See 0:42 and 0:55 of the video.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/7ZeChW4VFOU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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If nothing else, nice work for trying to help both the shooter and the CRO. Here are a few more thoughts.
1. CZ Custom is not a manufacturer. Even if CZ/CZUSA made the gun, that doesn't make it production legal. There is also "SP-01" SAO (single action) -- should it be Production legal?
2. The CRO should have access to approved list.
3. If the shooter is shooting a major match, he should know better. If not, well, as has been said, "you can't teach common sense and you can't fix stupid."
4. In regard to your Stock 2 example, I think most people wouldn't know whether a replaced hammer is production-legal; however, in this hobby/sport, I would think integrity should count for something. Nevertheless, in my 2.5 years of shooting USPSA, I have seen and heard too many cheating stories.
The CRO examined the gun. It was stamped SP01. There were no marking that hinted it was anything else. He questioned the shooter and the shooter said it was the way he bought it. To the CRO it was presented as a factory SP01, which is on the list.
The CRO has been in this game a while and is fairly well known. I was an unknown to him.
The following the week, I want to find out some info so I called CZ and CZ Custom. CZ stated no factory Accu Shadows have been imported yet. CZ Custom stated that they had done conversions on customer supplied guns and on factory SP01s. When I tried to tell the shooter it wasn't a production gun, he kept saying "CZ told me it was a production gun". He didn't understand the difference between something a company makes in production and a gun that is production approved.
As the shooter was leaving, I tried talking to the shooter away from the CRO. The intention was to try to explain it so he could correct himself before another match. He continued to (or pretend to) not understand.
How many of the guns on the list are ones you have never seen? If a RO/CRO is not familiar with every product, how can they rule on it? If I changed the hammer on my Stock II, how many ROs would even know?
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Incompetent CRO and cheating shooter in USPSA....impossible.
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If they wanted/needed help, they can ask. Communicate, manage, and administer are all verbs.
Production Nationals in Tulsa, OK
in USPSA Nationals
Posted · Edited by justaute
Mike...I think it might have a "few" slivers of improvement. In short, we'll just have to agree to disagree. To avoid digressing too much from this thread, I'll limit my comments to this one last posting.
As someone who has experience in management consulting, corporate investment & restructuring, and non-profit corporate boards, I think USPSA needs to take an inventory of what it has, what it wants to accomplish, and then build a roadmap to achieve it. I believe USPSA's ability to execute operationally is quite deficient. Given limited resources, organizations need to plan, plan early, and then plan to execute. Just my two pesos worth of opinion.
*** Again, I want to give props Troy and David for pulling together the Production Nationals with limited resources. Nicely done. ***
USPSA can be so much more. As a relative new-comer, I really want it to succeed. Nonetheless, I'm not necessarily sanguine about it.