[610 For USPSA]

. . . the COST of having one "Cut Down"...guess I'm just a CHEAP S.O.B. at heart...

About how much would it cost?

I'm thinking that 4.5" to 5" would be ideal.

But that being so close to the available 3.875" makes me wonder if the difference would be worth the cost, or the hassle.

[Revolver Participation at Matches]

Show no fear, there is a sweet 4" 610 in the classifieds with everything you need to get started.

I see that. Very interesting. But between the guns I've already bought this year, trying to accumulate holsters, mag pouches, et cetera, buying factory ammo to feed them, driving to competitions, trying (so far unsuccessfully) to stash away enough money for a reloading setup, I frequently end up with no grocery money as I'm waiting on payday.

Another gun is just NOT in the budget right now. (Give it a few months though )

Find someone to borrow one. . . .

Revolver Competitors are notoriously generous.

I may try that. I know a guy who's got all the stuff, but rarely shoots revo. Hmmm.

[I can only buy one revolver?]

I would agree that a 625 is probably the most versatile revolver. If you ever plan to shoot IDPA, get a 4", if not, get a 5".

Why?

Is a 5" too long to be legal in IDPA? Or is it less competitive in their matches for some reason?

A 5" barrel has always seemed about ideal to me. Under 4" seems a little short and 6+" seems a little on the long side. I'm not what you'd call a revo guy, so I'm going mostly on what looks appealing to me, knowing very little about what works.

I've been wanting a 610 which comes in 4" (3.875") and 6.5". I've about settled on the four, but if they had a fiver, I'd probably be all over it.

And on the "I can only buy one revolver?" subject:

Keep in mind that 1) I'm a newbie to this forum and to competition, and 2) the only revolver I own (have ever owned) is a single-action NAA Pug .22Mag with a 1" barrel. So I probably don't know what I'm talking about.

The 610 looks very versatile to me. Loaded to just make major it seems it would be great for USPSA competition. Full power .40 or light 10mm ("FBI loads") would make it a great defensive weapon. (A little big for concealed carry, but I'm talking about a nightstand gun or something for the console in the car.) Full-on 10mm loads are in the same neighborhood as .41 Magnum and would be a good hunting gun. Of course the 625, which most people here will tell you to get, can fill most of those roles about as well.

[Best sight picture]

I like a notch and post. But my handguns have always had dots, white or tritium, on them. Maybe it's just what I'm used to seeing. It seems to me that plain black sights could get lost against a dark target like a black painted steel plate. With a notch and post with three dots in a line, I've got light and dark. Whatever I'm shooting at, I should be able to see a sight picture.

[CM 99-55]

I shot this one today with Lea County Action Shooters in Hobbs, NM.

I helped set up the stages last night, so I knew what was coming. I came home and read this thread so I'd know what to be prepared for. I was confident I could make 40% or real close to it on this one.

I managed to screw it up.

I fired one round at each and reloaded and did it again.

I thought I was through. I dropped the mag and then noticed I had a hole in a no-shoot.

Standing there with the gun in one hand and the mag in the other, I realized I still had a round in the chamber. I extended my arm and fired the last shot one-handed so that I'd have two in that target.

RO thought I was done too. It was like If you uh . . . ^BANG! . . . IF YOU ARE FINISHED, unload and show clear.

Single Stack, Unclassified, shooting a Kimber Ultra CDP II, I shot 57 points minus 10 for the no-shoot, so 47 points in 25.07 seconds for a Hit Factor of 1.8748.

According to http://www.classifiercalc.com/ that gives me 17.8553%.

This is my fourth classifier. When the thing is run this month, I'll be classified D. I shot one in February and one in March, neither of which got turned in because my club didn't realize I'd joined USPSA (despite having my membership number on the sign-up sheet for the March match). That should be straightened out now. And I shot two this month.

17.2126%

22.4565%

31.3587%

17.8553% all according to classifiercalc.com. My average should be 22.2208%.

(Had I not screwed up today, my average would be up around 27%, but still a D.)

[New Shooter-.9mm or 40]

.40 is more agressive "snap"... where the .45 is a mild "push" as opposed to a "snap".

You really think full house, factory .45acp is more mild than factory .40????? That's nuts man

I do, in a way.*

Like he said, the .40 is more of a snap while the .45 is more of a push.

While the .45 may be pushing harder than the .40, I find the nature of the .45 recoil at least as easy to control as my .40.

I've owned two Smith & Wessons in .40S&W and have shot a couple more.

I'd never fired a .45ACP or any type of 1911. So I wasn't sure what to expect when I bought a little 3" barreled, aluminum framed Kimber. Apples to oranges, I know. It may be where my grip is in relation to the bore more than anything else, not sure. But I was pleasantly surprised at how easy the .45 is to hang on to.

*Opinions subject to change at any time.

[5" or 6"...for a newbie]

"What is better, a blond, brunette or red-head?"

I strongly suggest trying each one, possibly all at the same time, to determine what your preference is...

[Kyle's Flinch Breaker - 101]

Thinking to "slow down" is a speed focus. Which sucks.

People that have trigger freeze issues or issues getting good splits...that comes from tension. That tension arises from trying...to go fast. (Fast...slow...it's all still a speed focus.)

That may be part of my problem. I can get good hits. But to do all you're saying, watch the sights, follow through, et cetera, takes me 3-4 seconds per shot. I'm glacially slow.

But if I don't try to go fast, I'm not going to get any faster.

If we can get our brain wrapped around being aware...then the tension can melt away.

If we can see the front sight lift in recoil, then come back into the notch...our vision will guide our trigger finger just fine. We won't be bearing down and gripping the snot out of the gun. We will be allowing the gun to return and breaking the next shot as we see fit.

I'm working on that.

I recently discovered that I've been blinking as the shot broke for years. One trip to the range concentrating on just keeping my eyes open and watching the front sight made a really big improvement. Now that I can actually track the front sight through the recoil and back to the target, I finally have a direction to work towards getting faster. But thirty-some years of ingrained bad habit is tough to undo in just a few weeks.

Hitting single precise shots has never been a problem. But trying to string them together rapidly is where I fall short.

Now I'm starting to get it, I think.

[Kyle's Flinch Breaker - 101]

Just so you know I'm paying attention.

[Kyle's Flinch Breaker - 101]

Chances are, your flinch might come back during a match. If so, then slow down and call the shot...and follow-thru.

Who told y'all to slow down?

Why on earth would you slow down in a game that has a timer?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Yeah, I think that post is helpful. I'm planning a range trip sometime this week before Saturday's match. I'd already intended to do some of the stuff you're talking about. I'm going to incorporate more of what you said into this next practice session.

Thanks.

[Just how good are USPSA competitors?]

I move ok. Once upon a time, I was a good athlete and a very fast runner. I'm 40 now and don't work out enough. But I can still move quick for the short periods of time we're talking about in a course of fire. That doesn't help me much when the mag change takes longer than the two or three steps I need to make to get to the next position. I've found that I'm faster by walking and changing mags cleanly on the move than by getting there in a hurry and bumbling the mag change causing a standing reload.

My stage planning is coming along. I shoot single stack, so most of it is centered around where to change mags. Shoot these targets and change mags as I move over here, shoot these and change mags as I move over there. . . . I've been getting complements on my planning when things work out as planned. But I still manage to make some goofs that blow the whole thing. Miss a plate and it means these targets will take nine shots instead of eight and the whole plan just imploded because I'm looking at a standing reload. Thinking on the move and modifying the plan as it evolves will, I think, come with more experience.

It's the actual shooting where I'm much slower than others of equal experience. I grew up shooting mostly rifles slow fire. Take a breath, let part of it out, squeeeeeze the trigger, if the sight pictures starts to shake, let that breath out and start over. That obviously doesn't carry over well to practical shooting.

Slow fire, if I have a bad shot, I know about where it went even if I can't see the hole in the target. A good shot is what I expected and I give no more thought to it. I don't think "that was a good shot." It's just gone, I know it went where it was supposed to without really thinking about it. I'm trying to figure out if this is similar to what's known around here as "calling your shot."

But for me to do that, I'm taking 3-4 seconds per shot even on fairly close targets.

When I started competing, I could shoot maybe one shot per second and put them all in the A zone at say 7 yards, maybe 10 yards. If I tried firing 2 shots per second, maybe I'd hit somewhere on the target. This is all standing still and firing at a stationary target.

Two things where I think I doubled my speed in one 50-round practice session after reading some clues here:

1. I needed a tighter grip and also slightly changed my hand position. (Still working on getting the hand position just right to work for me.) Shooting a rifle slowly, I was taught not so much to hold the gun as to just let it rest on my hands. I do grip a pistol more than that, but maybe not enough. (I have a pretty strong grip for a little guy, but maybe I'm just not using enough of it.)

2. Most important was all this talk about "seeing the sights rise." WTH? I've been shooting for thirty-something years. I've very rarely, if ever, seen the sights rise. I read someone's post saying that many people blink and don't realize it, for years. Was I blinking as the shot broke? I wasn't sure.

So I went to the range with the goal of concentrating on keeping my eyes open. Secondary focus was on a firmer grip and trying a couple of ideas on how to better my hand position.

I didn't even put a target up. there was a 2x4 about 12 or so inches long laying on the berm. From 40-50 feet away I just shredded the thing firing every bit of two shots per second in complete control. I see the sights start coming up and I'm already starting to work against that and pull the front sight back to the target before it even tops out. I was amazed at the improvement from the first magazine. I fired forty-some-odd rounds and rarely missed that board. the ones that did miss were still close enough to dislodge the dirt around it and make the board roll.

So just keeping my eyes open and taking a little firmer grip was a huge step forward in speed. I still have a long ways to go to catch up, but I know the direction to go now.

At home, I've been practicing my draw, acquire front sight, squeeze trigger . . . over and over every day. It used to be draw, stop, find front sight, put it on target, trigger. Now when I draw, the front sight is coming right to where I'm looking and my focus shifts quickly (still not quickly enough) to the front sight and I pull the trigger. Getting there.

And I've been practicing mag changes, standing as well as moving. Hold sight picture . . . MOVE OUT! Change mags on the go, acquire new target, fire! I'm seeing a lot of improvement there.

In matches, it's still kinda herky-jerky, move out, change mags, KEEP MOVING DAMNIT, shoot stop, shoot more, move. Wait, did I shoot that target over there? Too many things for the mind to process at once. When some of the basic functions start happening without conscious thought, I'll be much better. That will come with practice and experience I think.

[Just how good are USPSA competitors?]

An actual match at my local club:

http://www.leaactionshooters.com/results/Mar09.txt

In Stage 1, I scored the most points but finished 20th out of 27.

In Stage 2, I scored the most points but finished 21st out of 27.

In Stage 3, I tied for 7th in points but finished 23rd out of 27.

In Stage 4, I had one 10 point penalty which placed me near the bottom even if the timer wasn't running.

In Stage 5 (the classifier 99-13), I had the most points, 119 out of a possible 120, but finished 22nd out of 27. (Should be 22.4565% when they get my membership info updated.)

Overall, I had the second most total points (after subtracting my penalty) but finished 23rd.

I'm slow, but generally hit what I aim at. People tell me I'm doing the right thing by shooting accurately and letting the speed come later rather than try to race through the course and have a lot of misses. But it can be discouraging to see the speed demons whip my tail.

I've been working hard to improve my speed. This forum has helped tremendously. That was just my second match. I feel like I've cut my times in half, on the draw, splits, and reloads, just this month, while sacrificing very little in accuracy. I don't have a timer to confirm that, but there's a match coming up Saturday.

Someone suggested I should be hitting 80-90% alphas. If less than 80%, slow down. If more than 90%, speed up. Any thoughts on that?

[There is no shortage of primers...]

I heard, yesterday or the day before, that Federal, Remington, and Winchester have announced that they will not sell any more primers as components until they can catch up on the backorders of factory ammo.

No link or anything to confirm this.

[Light primer strikes in the M&P 9's]

I was having similar problems with my M&P .40cal. . . .

I finally called S&W. They asked me to send the pistol back, free of charge, and a few weeks later they sent it back. Basically they send me an entire new slide/upper The work slip sent back with the gun gave no further explanation so I called them back. What the service person bascially told me was that it was easier to just replace the entire upper for the company than it was to troubleshoot the problem. Plus they sent it tp me with another high cap mag. Since then no problems with the pistol shooting with either WWB or reloads. So no real explanation but the gun runs now...mysterious

I just told this story in another thread.

I have an early model Sigma SW40F .40 cal. Maybe once every one or two hundred rounds, I'd get a strike that would dent the primer but not fire the round.

I mentioned this to a gunsmith. He took a look at it and told me the slide wasn't fitting correctly.

He sent it back to Smith. They replaced the slide for free and returned it with a couple of new mags. None of this cost me a dime.

I've put about 1000 rounds through it since (about 2000 rounds total) with no further problems.

The M&P design seems pretty similar to my Sigma. Take that for whatever it's worth.

[The Hot Ticket for Production]

XD^M

HOLY crap! That took 4 pages! The XDm 9 should be way up there.

I'm trying to justify a want of a gun for which I have no need. So if more people tell me that the XD^M is the greatest thing since smokeless powder, I just might have to get one.

[S&W Sigma 40 ?]

Digging up an old thread, but I would like to defend the reputation of my Sigma since no one else seems to like them.

Just before the Clinton hi-cap magazine ban went into effect, the gun store / range I frequented got in two Sigmas, SW40F, in .40S&W. One was to be a rental gun for the range and the other was for sale. The guys there knew I liked Smith and the .40 caliber. (I had a Performance Center Shorty Forty at the time.) They also knew I was looking for a hi-cap before the ban took effect and had been looking at Glocks. They suggested I try the Sigma.

I tried the one they had for rent. Before the week was out, I came back and bought the other one. It came with two 15-rd mags and I bought eight more.

I started hearing stories of Sigmas being horribly inaccurate. The two I've shot (mine and the rental gun they had) put fifteen rounds, off-hand, into one ragged hole at 25-30 feet, slow fire. Repeatably. NO flyers, unless I screw up. That hole is usually well under two inches. Not tack-driving accuracy, but plenty good for a self-defense weapon or for USPSA matches.

It just failed to fire at least one time per magazine. . . .

Mine failed to fire maybe one time out of a hundred. Maybe a little less than that. It would dent the primer, but no bang. I mentioned this to a gunsmith who was working on another gun for me. He looked at it and told me the slide didn't fit quite right. He sent it off to Smith and they replaced the slide. (This cost me nothing. No shipping. Nada.)

This was during the hi-cap ban. I was afraid they would "lose" my high capacity magazines, so I sent it in with no mags. When I got it back, it had two 10rd mags in the case which I neither asked for nor paid for.

I took it to the range and had a failure to return to battery about every other round. This was much worse than the original problem.

Took it home and took it apart. I did notice that it was bone dry. I cleaned and lubed it.

I've put about 1000 rounds through it since and have not had a malfunction of any kind. And I've run it pretty dry a couple times.

I guess it was just new slide + no lube = FTRB.

More recently I've heard stories of frames cracking. (Second- or third-hand stories, I've never met anyone with this problem.) I looked mine over carefully and find no evidence of cracks. I've got about 2000 total rounds through it.

I've also heard people complain about the trigger. I've always felt that my trigger was at least as good as any stock Glock I've ever tried. So I dry-fired a new SW40VE in the store. Trigger sucks on that one. Mine feels fine.

Maybe I just lucked out and got a good one. Strange because I usually get the one bad one of anything I get. But I'm very happy with my Sigma.

[The Hot Ticket for Production]

XD^M

[Revolver Participation at Matches]

Show no fear, there is a sweet 4" 610 in the classifieds with everything you need to get started.

I see that. Very interesting. But between the guns I've already bought this year, trying to accumulate holsters, mag pouches, et cetera, buying factory ammo to feed them, driving to competitions, trying (so far unsuccessfully) to stash away enough money for a reloading setup, I frequently end up with no grocery money as I'm waiting on payday.

Another gun is just NOT in the budget right now. (Give it a few months though )

[Glock 23]

In my forties, including a Smith & Wesson SW40F (very similar to a Glock 22 ), I have long used 155 grain Federal Hydra-Shoks.

I've also used the 180 grain. No problem with it, but I prefer the 155.

[Revolver Participation at Matches]

7. If you don't shoot revolver in matches, are you interested in giving it a try - why or why not?

The only revolver I currently own is a little pocket-sized North American Arms Pug .22 Magnum.

But I'm very interested in getting a Smith & Wesson 610 for, among other things, competing in USPSA Revolver division from time to time.

Six shots and a revolver reload is scary though. I have no experience in this. Fear of the unknown, I guess.

I'm still struggling with mag changes every eight rounds in Single Stack and trying to carry enough to complete long stages.

Gee, moon clips and those thingamajigs to carry them on my belt, and some kind of revo holster, in addition to the gun. . . . Lots of new gear to learn about and purcha$e.

(I've owned a couple of .40 autos, still have one, that I like. That's a big part of why I'm thinking 610, to stay with the .40S&W. I shoot .45 in Single Stack, so a 625 could be considered. But I like the flexibility of using .40 or 10mm; light .40 for competition to just make major, full power .40 or light 10mm for self defense, or serious 10mm loads for hunting big critters, all from the same gun seems very appealing.)

[Joining USPSA]

You have up to 2 or maybe 3 months if I'm not mistaken

Two weeks is what I was told on the phone. If you shoot a match and then join USPSA within two weeks of that match, your classifier score(s) can count.

If your club didn't send your scores in with the others since they didn't have a USPSA number for you and you didn't write "pending" in the space for the number, but you'd now like your classifier score(s) counted, after you've joined, you can get the club person who handles sending in the scores to send a corrected score sheet with your number. It can be sent by email to val@uspsa.org

I just went through this myself.

MODS, if I should not post someone's email addy without permission, then delete that part and I'll just say he should call USPSA at (360) 855-2245 to get the details.

[How many guns do you have?]

if you know how many guns you have off the top of your head then you dont have enough guns...

True. I don't have nearly enough.

When I moved to California, a coworker out of the blue says, "You're from Texas? I bet you have a bunch of guns, huh?"

My reply was, "I don't know. How many is a bunch? Out here, it may be considered a bunch. Where I'm from, my collection seems kind of small."

[Things You Only Do Once -]

My second year of college I moved off campus. . . . smoke detector . . . steam set it off . . . the noise had to stop. . . . I tried pressing the buttons and then removed the cover and took the battery out. Dam thing still wouldn't stop. So finally I lost it and reached up to wrestle it off the wall one way or another. Did I mention I was still soaking wet from the shower? Turns out the smoke alarm was hard wired into the wall. . . .

I was living in an apartment in college.

Steam from the shower set off the smoke alarm.

Like you, I thought I'd pull it down and take the battery out.

Like yours, it was hard-wired.

Naked and still still dripping water all over the place, I stood on a chair with a pair of wire cutters.

For a brief moment I wondered what they would think when they found me dead and nude sprawled across this wet chair after being electrocuted by the ceiling-mounted smoke detector.

Fortunately, I did not get shocked. But I knew it was not the smartest move I ever made.

[Official Area 4 match annoucement - 2009]

Never mind. I was going off topic. I'll take it to a PM.

[First shoot tomorrow and introductions]

Glad to hear you had fun and finished well.

I'm still new to this myself and feel a little lost at times, but I'm having a great time.