njl

Here's what I shot today. 130gr BBI 1.140" OAL 4gr WST 994.0-1054fps 1021avg 60.08ES 20.19SD 4.2gr WST 1004-1053fps 1031avg 49.51ES 15.45D 4.4gr WST 1000-1053fps 1033avg 52.43ES 16.06SD The first few I loaded (with Universal) must have been just long enough to touch the rifling...because they won't quite drop in and out of the barrel...but the slide will close all the way on them. For this batch, I shortened the OAL and used a G19 barrel as a gage to make sure they'd drop in / drop out. There was still some smoke, not quite as noxious, and I got lucky and the breeze was in the opposite direction as last time, so my smoke was blowing down range. I cleaned the barrel before and after shooting the BBIs, and I'm not real happy about the amount of residue they leave (Glock 17, factory barrel). I'll probably hold onto the remaning 900+ of them and only use them for targets/ranges where jacketed ammo isn't permitted. Montana Gold's are just easier to load, cleaner shooting, and only a little more $.

I've heard from some who shoot Extreme that if you buy in bulk quantities (think 5-15k bullets or more per order) the pricing gets better...but I agree with you, if you go buy their posted prices, the only reasons to buy their plated bullets are because you haven't heard of Precision Delta, Montana Gold, or Zero, or those three are out of stock and you need them now.

So it's mostly just a convenience to keep from having to empty the cup every several hundred rounds?

Can you tell us about your spent primer catch system? I see what looks like some tubing connected to the primer chute, and I noticed you don't have the spent primer catch cup. Have you solved the 1-2% spent primers on the floor problem?

Well...I had a jar of WSF in my hands today, but I couldn't bring myself to pay $25 + tax for 1lb of WSF I wouldn't likely use for anything else. I figured I could try increasing up to max load and shorting the OAL to closer to Hodgdon's listed min OAL and see if the velocity gets more reasonable.

Nobody around here sells Vihtavuori powders. After some more googling, I'm thinking about trying 4.5gr of WST. I was pretty happy with it in .45 for being low smoke with lead base FMJs.

I tried out 3 and 3.15 gr Universal with an OAL of 1.130. Velocity was not what I'd hoped for. There wasn't really any difference (a few fps in the lowest low and highest high) between the two charges. Both avg'd 780fps with lows of 740 and highs of just over 800fps. They felt like I was shooting a .22...and so I can kind of see why a lot of the heavy GSSF shooters like 147gr loads...though I doubt they're loading them this light. I don't think Universal is going to work with these without going beyond what Hodgdon publishes as max.

I recently ordered 1k of these, and shot 30 of them today. I loaded with 3.8 and 3.9gr Universal Clays, and was getting around 1000fps (don't have my log book in front of me). I loaded them to about 1.154, which looked like it'd be ok comparing them to my MG 124gr JHP loads. The smoke was terrible. If I'm going to load more of these, I've got to find a less smoky powder for them. Recommendations (preferably with load data)?

The trouble with that is, for different bullet profiles, they're going to hit the seating stem differently...so setting OAL for a GDHP using a FMJ sample round isn't likely to produce the correct OAL is it?

When changing from one bullet to another, especially ones that are quite different (i.e. in 9mm, MG 124gr JHP, BBI 130gr, Speer 147gr GDHP). Do you just back the seating die way out and adjust as needed to get the OAL you want? Or do you compare some measurements (bullet length, bullet + seating stem length) and calculate how much adjustment is necessary, then taking into account one rotation is about 0.07" figure out how much rotation you need?

After reading this thread, I decided to do some informal testing today. I shot using my normal 2 handed grip and my old G17 (this was just about the last of the 2-pin Gen3 G17's) at 13yds. I tested MG 124gr CMJ and JHP, PD 124gr FMJ, and Blazer (aluminum) 115gr. The MG CMJ were definitely the smallest group, followed by the PD and Blazer. The MG JHP's did the worst. I reshot several MG JHP targets just to make sure it wasn't all me. These were all loaded in Win [used] brass, CCI SP primers, 4.3gr Universal. Perhaps as mpeltier found, there's something more I need to adjust. All I've done in moving from one bullet to the other is adjust the seating die height. Given what I saw from today's targets, I don't think I'll bother with MG 124gr JHP again. I may even see if I can locally sell them or trade them for CMJ. I've probably got close to 3000 of them left.

Google it for more details...but basically Berdan and Boxer were two guys a long time ago who came up with different designs for primers/cartridge heads. Boxer uses a primer with integral anvil and a single centered flash hole. Berdan uses primers without anvils and requires the cartridge head to provide the anvil. Since the anvil is centered, instead of a centered flash hole there are two offset flash holes. Since berdan primer brass doesn't have a centered flash hole, a normal (boxer) decapper will hit solid brass and bend or something will break if you use it to deprime berdan primed brass.

What powder were you using?

Pricewise, I don't see any real difference between plated and jacketed. For targets where jacket separation/ricochet is a concern, are plated any safer than jacketed? One of the ranges I use won't let you shoot steel with jacketed ammo. I don't know if they'd allow plated. I know lead is allowed. It's got me wondering recently about Precision or one of the other makers of lead bullets with a coating that's supposed to avoid leading the barrel. I primarily shoot Glocks...so lead build-up (or tearing up the film coating) in the polygonal rifling is a concern.

Sorting by headstamp, you should probably be ok. The berdan stuff often tends to be steel (Wolf and the other Russian brands). The really common stuff you'll find (Win, WCC, FC, RWS, Blazer brass, Speer, RP, Fiocchi, *I*, IMI, *-*) is all going to be boxer. You're probably more likely to run into crimped 9mm primer pockets than berdan primed brass cases.

Where did that data come from?

Anything ever happen with this?

I was real close to stopping at Bass Pro today to look for WSF, Titegroup, or Longshot...but I think I've decided to just give it a try with Universal. Clays and WST seem kind of questionable for this bullet. I know Universal may have issues making minor PF...but the truth is, I don't really have to make PF. I'm not going to shoot these bullets in bulk (too expensive), so they're not going to become my std. match ammo. As long as I can make a load that cycles and otherwise works, I think I'll be happy. I still may pick up some WSF or titegroup eventually.

The Dillon cover will work with "all the stuff" as long as that doesn't include a case feeder. IIRC, it won't cover the bullet tray and stuff...but it can be put on and covers the press.

I bought some 147gr Speer Gold Dots that seemed to be a good deal, but all I've ever loaded in 9mm is 124gr FMJ/CMJ/JHP. I have the following "pistol" powders (in order of quantity on hand): Universal Clays WST Clays Which, if any, of these would you use, or would I be better off buying something else, perhaps WSF? My concern is, I haven't seen published data for the latter two and 147gr bullets, and Universal looks like it's going to be questionable as to whether it can reliably make minor.

A minimum load of Universal Clays with 124/125gr jacketed bullets from a G17 size gun will easily make power factor and give you noticeably milder shooting ammo than factory ammo. It's got the added benefit that a double charge of this load won't fit a 9mm case. Some also really like WST for 9mm, but Hodgdon publishes no 9mm data for it, and if you email them about it, they'll tell you they specifically don't recommend it for 9mm.

That's a pretty obvious fix for insufficient engagement between the trigger bar and the striker. Moving the trigger spring hole up the trigger causes the pull of the trigger spring to change to more of a straight back pull, reducing trigger pull weight. There must be just enough play in some Glock trigger housings that doing this results in the trigger bar being pulled down enough to end up with insufficient engagement. Moving the trigger spring back down to a lower or the original hole will result in the trigger bar being pulled back and up, increasing engagement, but probably also adding a bit (few ounces?) to your trigger pull. If you have a digital trigger pull gauge, I bet you can measure the difference...but if the lighter trigger doubles or goes full auto, it's no good.

What "bubba gunsmith" has been screwing with your Glock?

Well...nickel because it doesn't tarnish...I was just at the range with a friend who brought some old (probably around 10yr) store bought factory .45acp ammo...and it was pretty tarnished...looked worse than my reloads. The steel and aluminum cases must be cheaper to produce, or there'd be no point.

I wonder if they do something to it, or if because it's an aluminum alloy, the oxidation isn't an issue? Aluminum left on its own in air forms a thin layer of aluminum oxide that then protects the aluminum from further oxidation. Chambering a round isn't nearly as tight a fit as resizing, so I don't know that it would really wear on the guns if the oxide was there.