2MoreChains
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Posts posted by 2MoreChains
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Following. I was just on TwoSee’s website. Anybody have any experience with their 2C 1911 Direct Mill cut for the SRO on a 1911/2011 slide that does not require a mounting plate? Cuts the optic pocket low enough that they had to do a step cut on the top of the slide to clear the SRO’s hood.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CodOaAOS6GG/
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D7 21.2b
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I use the Wheeler Fat Wrench (analogue) at home and have a basic Fixit kit in my range bag. Much better than guessing.
Seems like 12-15 inch pounds is a pretty common torque setting for the size of red dot optic mounting screws, but I recall reading somewhere that if you’re using lock-tite you should back off a pound or two since the lock-tite acts like lube and you can over-tighten the screw as a result.
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The bottom picture is how Fire 4 Effect ‘solved’ the problem of the Trijicon’s mounting footprint being slightly too wide for the Shadow 2. They milled in two pockets for the ‘pillars’ as you call them which are dovetailed in and further secured with cross screws. I believe the intent was to provide more ‘meat’ for the mounting screws to attach to. I have two guns they did the milling for and have not had any issues.
Sadly Fire 4 Effect went out of business in 2022. But I think I saw something online that said Impact Machine has taken over F4E’s mounting method (it may have been patented).
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2 hours ago, PeterParfinik said:
I know it personal choice , but are most of the competitors using the equipment based off of the 700 action ?
Not all, but quite a few who also compete in centerfire PRS like to have their rimfire rifle mimic or be close to their centerfire rifle. Ergos are the same and you have access to much more after-market support and parts interchangeability (chassis, stocks, triggers, barrels). That kind of puts you in the Bergara, Vudoo, or RimX camp however, and plenty of people are doing quite well with their CZ 457s or Tikkas and both are popular enough that you have good after-market support, albeit not as robust as a Rem700 pattern barreled-action. I looked at the Ruger, but the limited after-market options for upgrades made me shy away from it.
1 hour ago, PeterParfinik said:Also, is anyone using a semi auto ? I see JP rifles has just debuted one at this years Shot Show for this game.
NRL22 allows semi-autos and every now and then I see somebody show up with a tricked out 10/22 but bolt action is way more common. NRL22 rules (and PRS as well) require the bolt to be open and back when changing positions on a stage. For semi-auto you have to put it on safe and also say out loud “On Safe” so the RO can hear you. Not a big deal once you get used to it.
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I like nice things as well, but truth be told I think you can be competitive with a factory CZ, Bergara, or Tikka provided you put in some work to find the right load the gun likes, practice a bunch shooting from non-belly prone positions, and with a minimal investment in gear.
I got started with a CZ 455, added a weighted Arca rail so it balanced when sitting on a bag on a barricade, bungeed on a dope card holder to my scope, basic Harris bipod that I already owned, experimented with different size/shaped sandbags for positional shooting, and a used Kestrel I got from a friend to calculate my holds out to 300+ yards.
That was enough to get me started. I didn’t worry about range finders for the first year because the distances were always known (plus other people had LRF’s), and I also got to experiment with using their bags and plate systems until I figured out what worked best for me.
Then as I shot more matches I started upgrading my gear. First on the list was a better scope with the features I wanted: close parallax, lot of internal elevational travel, 10-12 MILS per rotation in the turret bc in .22
world you have to dial A LOT to get out to 300 and 400 yds, good FOV, a zero stop, and a reticle with a Christmas tree for the stages where you have to hold elevation and wind.
My next big upgrade was a tripod for rear support and also to support my binos when spotting. I also use it for dryfire and live fire practice without needing all the props you typically see at a match. Then I bought a Kestrel 5700 Elite to replace the old kestrel since the newer ones have better features, and also got a LRF bino that Bluetoothed to my new Kestrel so all I had to do was range the target and my dope would pop up in the display. That’s a big time saver if you ever shoot a NRL Hunter match. The Sig LRF binos do have onboard AB calculator so I guess in theory you could skip the Kestrel but I trust my Kestrel more than the Sig LRF at this point.
I’m at the point now where I feel like the CZ was holding me back so last month I ordered a Vudoo w/ a 22” straight taper Bartlein barrel. My reasoning for the heavy barrel is to make balancing it in the chassis easier and the extra weight is going to help steady the rifle when shooting off a bag in awkward props such as a tank trap, fence post, rocks, etc.
It’s a fun game and I’m enjoying shooting 2-3 matches a month in addition to USPSA. Plus it’s nice to be able to buy ammo and not deal with finding all my shot brass and brass prep like I have to do with centerfire rifles.
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I would agree. Other than the rifle itself, I use the same gear for the rimfire PRS/NRL22 as I do with centerfire PRS. Both rifles have a full length Arca Swiss rail for mounting bipods and gamer plates.
Kestrel 5700 w/ AB
Data card holders
Atlas CAL bipod w/ Arca clamp
Sig 10K bino/LRF
Schmedium bag w/ heavy fill (use it on barricades for positional shooting or as a rear bag when shooting off the bipod)
Tripod
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What caliber do most of the other people at the bowling pin matches shoot?
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Coming from the SP-01 Shadow with the extended thumb safeties, I hated them. Ended up adding the DSperman heavier detent springs bc my support hand would sometimes bump the safety one. Ended up switching them out for the flat safeties.
When I got the Shadow 2 (this is when CZ shipped them with both the flat and extended safeties) I put the flat ones on right of the bat and left it like that ever since. IMO, when shooting DA/SA guns there’s no need for a thumb safety in our game. Either your gun has the hammer down at make-ready in DA mode or you’re shooting.
There’s a few videos online showing the different techniques people use to lower the hammer on a SP-01 or Shadow 2. Might be worth your wife watching them if she hasn’t. Plus if she does this a bunch of times in dry-fire it might make her feel more comfortable.
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I had my first Shadow 2 milled for an optic when the max weight limit for CO was 45 oz. At 46-47 oz, the gun was already overweight to begin with for CO (circa 2018 rulebook). But, since I was shooting it in Production at the time and really liked the platform I bit the bullet and had the slide milled for the optic (SRO) and to reduce weight. Came in at 44.1 oz w/ optic and empty mag installed. When I set my second Shadow 2 up for CO, this was AFTER the weight limit was raised so had the option of not doing the slide lightening. However I had the second Shadow 2 milled with the same slide lightening cuts bc I liked how the lighter gun felt and wanted to keep them both the same.
The cuts look cool, but they do tend to bite the hand if you rack from the front of the slide. I think I mostly use my optic as a slide racker these days….
I would recommend Fire 4 Effect in TX to do the slide milling for the RMR/SRO footprint but unfortunately they went out of business at the end of 2022.
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13 lb mainspring should lite off any primers with stock firing pin and FP spring. If you want to go with the 11.5 lb then a lot of people recommend the extended firing pin and reduced FP spring but quite a few people also report that the 11.5 lb spring works well with the stock firing pin on most primers such as CCI, Federal, etc. Not sure about some of the eastern European or South American inputs.
The lowest mainspring is the 8.5 lb. If you go that low, definitely recommend the extended FP and reduced FP spring AND using Federal primers.
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4 hours ago, shred said:
Here we get an inflated sense of USPSAs importance to the gun industry. The vast majority of it does not care what USPSA does. Pop by SHOT next week and visit acres and acres of indifference.
Phil Strader's complaint on FB the other day about changing the compensator definition. Do people think if SIG really had an 'in' with USPSA that would be how it went?
CZ sells way more Shadow 2's in a single year than there are USPSA members total. I doubt there's anyone in the industry with enough cash to swing things much one way or the other. I'd guess it's member-driven for better or worse.
This^. If industry was leading this charge it would be more apparent.
Everything I’m hearing is the proposed equipment and rulebook changes are member-driven or clean-up based on some things that are no longer deemed needed by the rules committee based on another change that occured in 2021.
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8 hours ago, jpm2953 said:
Ok. Yeah it has a 13 in it. Any issues with light strikes on these going to a 12 or 11?
I run 11.5 on my shadows and they are all 5-5.5 range.
No issues with the 12 lb spring in mine. It lights off CCI primers without fail.
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IME to get your LTT into the 6&2’s you need to get a lighter mainspring. I want to say the one that comes with their trigger job is a 13 lb mainspring, You need a 12 or 11.
It’s the same way with my Shadow 2, with the CGW 13 lb mainsping installed I get around 7 lb DA and 2.5-3 lb SA. But with their 11.5 mainspring it drops to 6&2.
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5 hours ago, GrumpyOne said:
To paraphrase...
We choose to go to shoot Production in this decade with 10 round limits, and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win, and the others, too.
I can see both sides. While shooting Production with 15 round mags (or mag capacity) would be fun, no doubt, you lose something that you had shooting the same division with 10 round mags. You lose some of the stage planning, you lose more mag changes, you lose some of the mental aspect of it. Sure, there is still going to be all of that with a 15 round mag limit, but possibly cut in half. Some of the challenge will be gone. With 10 round limits, it drove a myriad of different choices of how to shoot a long stage, you saw competitors shooting stages that you never thought of. With 15 rounds, I suspect that those choices will be pared down.
Everybody wants to go fast, and the easiest path to fastness (is that a word?) is to change the rules to eliminate time consuming mag changes.
With that being said, I do agree with changing the mag limit to 15, not necessarily to go faster, but to update the sport to where it is compatible in today's world.
Had USPSA started in the late 19th / early 20th century, would those shooting cap and ball revolvers shunned advancement in capacity?
First and foremost, firearms designers have always wanted to get more capacity, from the first guns to have multiple barrels, to having more rounds loaded in the same barrel, to developing a rotating cylinder, to a tube fed magazine, to a box magazine, for faster following shots or just more shots.
Isn't it time we updated the division to reflect what is most common in todays world?
You had me when you started paraphrasing JFK. One of my favorite speeches.
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There are pros and cons to everything:
15 rnds proposal:
Pros: 15 rnds is more funner than 10. Levels the playing field since most guns on the Prod list can hold 15 rnds in a factory mag. Differentiates Prod from the other divisions since it would be the only division with 15 rnds. Most newbs have at least 3 mags, so they don’t need to be stuffed into winder-likker division that only a few crayon chewers want (and further inflating Limited activity numbers).
Con: Instead of counting to 10, ROs will now need to count to 15 or 15+1. Not all ROs are very diligent about counting to 10 as it is. 15 is going to be even worse.
Factory mag length proposal:
Pros: Load ‘em up to capacity! No need for ROs to count rounds. Newb shooters with only 3 mag can now shoot Prod instead of winder-likker division.
Cons: Mag capacity envy from those people who’s gun only holds 15 rnds, and smug looks from the guy shooting guns that hold 19… Prod essentially becomes a 19 rnd division. Allowing mag length is going to create an equipment race with mag springs to maximize capacity, and I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody figures out a spring/follower combo that increases capacity of the factory 19 rnd mags to 20 or 21 rnds.
Factory length mag w/ short mag extension:
Pros: Levels the playing field so the 15 rnd guys can add a basepad (that fits the box) to catch up to the factory 19 rnd mags, A boon for companies making extended basepads that fit the box and increase a factory mag capacity to +1, +2, +3, etc..
Cons: Yet another equipment race, only this time it is in basepads, springs, and followers. As with mag length, Prod essentially becomes a 19 rnd division (if 15 is better than 10, 19 must be way more better… right?).
All that being said, I’d probably shoot Prod more if capacity was increased to any of the three proposals above.
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The Dec 20 BOD meeting minutes indicated they are going to open up a 30-day member comment period, supposedly starting on Dec 28th, to solicit member input prior to the in-person BOD meeting in January.
The minutes read like they will be asking for member comment not only on the proposal to add a provisional Limited-Optics division, but also on some proposed changes to Prod and L-10 divisions.
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OP: Are you going to want to shoot the Shadow 2 in IDPA Carry Optics division as well as USPSA’s CO division?
Reason I ask, and somebody correct me if I am wrong, is I thought IDPA’s CO division has a weight limit of 45 oz. Without optic, I believe the S2 OR weighs in around 46-47 oz, so too heavy for IDPA’s CO division without putting it on a diet. For USPSA it’s a non-factor since the weight limit is 59 oz.
I had my Shadow 2’s milled for an optic a while back. This was before the OR model was available and before USPSA increased the weight limit so I also had some slide lightening cuts done and my guns come in at 44.1 oz with empty mag and optic. I only shoot IDPA once or twice a year (and club level matches at that) and near as I can tell they are IDPA legal for weight.
Something to think about…
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You are “out” until you are “in”. Jumping up from “out” does not make you “in”.
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9 hours ago, barrysuperhawk said:
Ok, I just did a little research on the 6mm calibers mentioned and 6GT seems to offer the best combination of benefits, so 6GT it is.
I have the optics covered courtesy a couple of simply awesome prize table certificates, Thank you to both Burris and Vortex for supporting the sport(s)!!!
Personally I don’t think you can go wrong with any of them. Plenty of people running 6BR, 6Dasher and 6GT at matches for a reason. Advantage of GT (or may be a disadvantage) is the GT’s nickname (see my pic above).
When I went scope shopping I had a specific list of features I wanted such as parallax, 10-12MILS per rotation on the elevation turret, locking cap for windage, magnification range, reticle style, 56mm obj lens for more light, etc. The Burris XTR Pro checked all those boxes for me at a decent price with glass quality that is comparable to scopes that cost more. And for rings, I usually pair the scope with rings from the same brand, so Burris XTR Signature rings were what I used to mount the scope.
Agree, good to support those that provide sponsorship!
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Ranger gave you a lot of good info on actions and barrels. To add to his comments:
For the the 6GT and any of the 6mm variants as well as 6.5CM you’re in the “short action” category and all of them use the .308 bolt face. So down the road if you want to go back to 6.5CM or try one of the other 6mm all you need to do is switch barrels. The other thing to consider for your action is do you want a 90 degree bolt throw or 60 degree? As with everything there are pluses and minuses with each.
60 deg: shorter bolt lift, less to lift, and less likely to run into anything you have protruding from your scope body (knobs, levers, etc). Downside is sometimes it is a heavier bolt lift which could slow down the bolt throw (washing out the advantage of the shorter bolt lift) and cause you to lift your cheek off the buttstock which means you need to re-acquire your target. But I certainly have seen plenty of people run their 60 deg bolts pretty damn fast with no interruptions.
90 deg bolt throw is thought to have an easier bolt lift (1 finger) and easy bolt close (1 finger). Downside is the exact opposite of the advantages of the 60 deg bolt: have to lift the bolt higher and your finger may run into the scope or knobs. With the way my scope is mounted I have not run into this on my 90 deg bolt and I appreciate the easy lift/close.
I second the advice about getting an action that is based on the Rem 700 pattern for no other reason that the wide range of aftermarket support in the form of triggers, stocks/chassis that are inlet for that pattern.
I also second the comment about buying an action from a shop that offers pre-fit barrels. With the advances in CNC machining and exacting tolerances, this has opened up the option of shops spinning up barrels that they guarantee will fit a certain brand of action without having to machine a barrel to that specific individual action. Granted, I ended up going with a gunsmith spun up barrel but that was bc of the pricing (7 hundred for a blank and GS services vs 5 hundred for a prefit and I would have had to buy the action wrench and a barrel clamp).
For me, the big three actions came down Zermatt TL3, Lone Peak Fuzion, and Impact Precision 737R. I got to try them all out, and in the end it came down to 2 things: The Lone Peak and Impact just felt better to me, and the Impact was available from Altus whereas at the time Lone Peak was on back order. Altus also offers Proof barrels in competition contour for the Impact, so down the road I may go that route (a friend of mine who got his action and barrel at the same time are probably going to split the cost of the action wrench and barrel clamp so we can DIY our next barrel swap).
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I went thru this last spring/summer. I had been shooting PRS on/off for a few years with a factory RPR in 6.5CM but the rifle never really fit me very well. Opted to go semi-custom when I met a gun at my local club who was a machinist/gunsmith and he offered to spin up a barrel in whatever caliber I wanted. My choice of calibers came down to three: 6CM, 6BR, and 6GT since I wanted the lighter recoil of the 6mm variants. With my 6.5CM I could keep the target in the FOV thru the recoil when prone and had the bipod loaded, but it was 50/50 when shooting off barricades, tires, fence posts, etc.
Upside of the 6CM was availability of factory ammo but shorter life expectancy of the barrel.
Upside of 6BR was very easy to load for, components were available, but I read that the go-to powder was Varget (which I didn’t have) and while some people had load using H4350 it wasn’t the best choice. I also heard that some people had feeding issues with the 6BR and/or the mag feedlips required tweaking.
Upside the 6GT was availability of factory ammo (Hornady from GAP or Peterson), 4350 works great with 6GT (which I have a bunch of), fairly easy to load for, no mag feeding issues, and a little better barrel life than 6CM.
I went 6GT
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12 minutes ago, caspian guy said:
The other thing I've seen is people push the gun slightly out of battery (maybe more of an issue with open guns with light recoil springs and cause a malfunction.
And the Timmies are saying “THAT is why you mount a light with a bezel that extends a little past the muzzle!”
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Squad with a bunch of new shooters who don’t reload.
Where to have ST Eagle 5.0 milled for an RDS?
in 1911-style Pistols
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Any updates? I have what is essentially a 9mm STI Eagle only the slide was tri-topped. Rear dovetail is a Bomar cut.
I looked on DSC’s website, and they did say the Atlas GW optic cut is compatible with slides already cut with the Bomar/LPA dovetail. Anybody do this and have pics?
Being that this is for a comp gun, rear sight (or front for that matter) is not needed IMO.