OUshooter
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Posts posted by OUshooter
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I guess I'm a guy that doesn't see much gray, either is or isn't.
When shooting Prod or SS does it really matter, "offer a significant advantage" that you pulled a mag with 11rds from your last pouch that was just above your butt crack, loaded 1, ejected and put it back, then pulled a mag from your front pocket and stuck it in the gun? Hell no it didn't matter, but it sure has sin bumped you to Open, depending on the RO. Thankfully that has been rectified.
All I'm saying is that rules are easier to enforce and a lot of people's time is not wasted if the rules are less gray. Also they are more easily applied across all levels of competition.
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...... By contrast a small rifle primer is designed for basically the same size flash hole as a .40S&W, but will yield dramatically different results than a small pistol primer, flame wave propagation and such.
I don't have any long term data, but I've certainly subbed in SR and LR primers into pistol ammo when that's all I had. Not much difference over the chrono at all, like 20fps if that. Just my personal experience.
Kevin
I'd have to go with what you say on this since I've not experimented. Another thought is that the powder not the primer is the limiting factor in the equation. If that's the case and if the primer is capable of properly igniting the powder charge then the contribution from the primer is measurable, but not significant.
That makes the most sense to me. The only other consideration is whether or not the cups on the different primers have differing harnesses. Then I can see where a semiauto pistol with a competition spring pack might not light off a small rifle primer. Or a Mag Small Pistol primer is expecting to be hit by a hammer in a revo.
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This is why I don't use WST. 4.3grn is the max load per manual with a 180grn jacketed round at 1.125". You switch to a plated or moly bullet and in theory the max load should decrease by ~8-10%. Do lots of folks run WST beyond spec? Yes. Does it KB? Not so much because the OAL has usually been extended. Reading primers is like reading tea leaves. Unless you want to get a pressure barrel and get actual data, then stay within the lines that the manufactures have laid out.
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Mag vs. nonMag probably has a lot to do with the size of the flash hole. Trust me I'm no expert, but I thought that cases where a mag primer is called for had larger flash hole diameters. By contrast a small rifle primer is designed for basically the same size flash hole as a .40S&W, but will yield dramatically different results than a small pistol primer, flame wave propagation and such.
I'd think if you got a good deal on SPM primers and the chrono data shows you are within specs then rock on. Honestly I don't know. For me personally they would have to be given to me to even consider using them.
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Tie a rope to the proper leg of the turner that runs back to the shooting area. Then the shooter has the choice to "reactivate" the turner and it's no longer a NPM.
I've not done a NS on a DT, but I'm thinking about it now....hehe.
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Just like the other calls we have to make as RO's, we have to "know" rather than just "suspect". If you decide to issue a 10.6.1 DQ, you have to know that they lied to you about swapping ammunition, and not having really done so.
I hear what you are saying and fully support your position. I just hate, but will if required, jumping on a live grenade.
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After 6 different powders I ended up with an 8lb jug of Autocomp. Lots of people Spockbrow me when I tell them what powder I'm using. It's cheap super clean, great in my G35 with 180gr FMJs, and makes major PF at the low end of the scale not the top end.
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Lastly, when you have RO's that obviously don't know the rules or how to apply the rules you need to get the RM or MD involved to resolve the issue. If you let these uninformed or misinformed RO's apply rules incorrectly they will never learn. We all screw up from time to time. Its all a learning process. The guys who don't want to learn are the ones who need to be told to stop ROing.
Before this gets too out of control I am going on record as saying this was not the case. First it was a practice league environment. The MD was one of the RO's involved in the discussion. Second I would put any of the RO's involved up against the best anywhere. They are all good RO's, even the guy who gave me the procedurals. That is not the problem with this rule. If anybody needs to get on the same page it is NROI and the RMI's. That is not a critical statement it is just a fact. The conversation went something like this. Me- Guys I think 12 procedurals for that was a little much. I was told by an RMI that a significant advantage is more than what I did. RO 2 I agree but the RO made the call so it is what it is. RO 2 I think it is the right call because RMI "X" told me it is automatic significant advantage if you are closer to a target, period. RO 3 THIS IS EXACTLY WHY THE RULE NEEDS CHANGED!
I think any rule that leaves something open to such broad interpretation should at least be addressed at higher levels so us RO's are getting consistent info from our chain of command.
Based off of the conversation last night, depending on who is the RM for a given match you could get a totally different ruling than you could get at any other match, including the Nationals. That should never be the case.
I completely agree that an RO at Nats should assess it the same as an RO at a Lvl I club match. IMHO the easiest thing to do is draw a line in the sand. Make any advantage a "significant" advantage.
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For all our talk about safety first that seems like a dangerous game to play. I take no joy in DQing a shooter, but I take much less in making a hot shot run to the ER to dig shrapnel out of my and the shooters face.
What sucks is if I suspect the shooter is going back to the truck to get "another batch" and returning with the same ammo I won't allow someone else to RO them. I will do it and make sure the clipboard RO is well behind us.
I just can't seem to wrap my head around being able to DQ a shooter for sweeping their own hand with a slide locked gun during a reload, but not for dangerous ammo that could cause bodily harm.
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I'm all about simple. Take out "significant" and just make it one procedural for each shot period when faulting. I'd keep 10.2.3 to go with it so that if you bang away with 12 rounds at 4 plates you only end up with 4 procedurals. The time you wasted not going 1 for 1 is going to sting on top of the 4 proc.
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With the proper mesh size of media you shouldn't have to deal with it getting stuck in the flash hole. For pistol I leave the primers in. For hoser/3gun rifle ammo I leave the primers in. For my bolt gun loads I decap, then tumble.
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Check around with your local auto body finishing store. I buy 50lbs bags of Walnut hulls 20/40 mesh on the cheap. No shipping, you get it that day and you support the local folks.
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As the RO what rule do I site that keeps the shooter from continuing to use ammo that has had 2 squibs during a match? 10.5.15.1 says I can't DQ the shooter, but I'm not sure where to look for guidance. Is 5.5.5 all I have to work with? If the shooter claims they switched to a different batch of ammo, but they have another squib do I hand out a 10.6.1?
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As others have said it's all relative. Me I'm not a big 1911 guy I'm a polymer frame fan. I've got a Spartan that cost $610 out the door, and it's fine for what I want. Some folks want a 6k show piece that is more of a status thing that a tool. Some folks want a 3k custom that is both flashy and worked like a mule.
Get a basement model run a few thousand rounds through it and then decide if you are ready to drop serious coin on one.
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Here's a few:
http://www.k8nd.com/ipscload.htm
in case you dabble with VV powders: http://www.lapua.com/en/products/reloading/vihtavuori-reloading-data
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The color of the press doesn't really come into play here. It's all about the setup of the expander die. I've had similar issues on an RCBS turret press and Hornady LNL AP.
Get yourself a bit more flare and you should be fine.
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I went with KKM for my G35 and I cant imagine there being a better barrel. Its fit and finish are perfect and accuracy is better than anyone will ever need for action sports.
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OK I'm confused....which happens once every 10yrs.
Wide called it as 3 FTE's, and I called it 5 FTE's.
However, you said that "Failing to activate the device means that ALL remaining targets are scored as Fail To Engage"
So how is that 3 FTEs and not 5?
'Cause the OP stipulated that the shooter shot at the bottom two exposed plates but missed so 3 FTE's and 5 mikes.
Which makes perfect sense. However,
9.9.3 Moving scoring targets will always incur failure to shoot at and miss penalties if a competitor fails to activate the mechanism which initiate the target movement.
Its just the way I read it that it doesn't matter how many rounds you bang away with at a moving target if you don't cause it to "activate the mechanism" you are penalized for a mike and a FTE.
9.5.7 A competitor who fails to shoot at the face of each scoring target in a
course of fire with at least one round will incur one procedural penalty
per target for failure to shoot at the target, as well as appropriate penalties
for misses.
Which common sense tells that if the shooter as described by the OP shot 2 rounds you would assess 3 FTE's. As was stated by Wide if the RO can't determine if the shooter was trying to hit each plate it's a reshoot.
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OK I'm confused....which happens once every 10yrs.
Wide called it as 3 FTE's, and I called it 5 FTE's.
However, you said that "Failing to activate the device means that ALL remaining targets are scored as Fail To Engage"
So how is that 3 FTEs and not 5?
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5 mikes
5 fte
It seems that 9.9.3 is in play regardless of there being a prop stick. The intent of the star is that it spins once a plate is shot off. It would be pointless to have a pinned star covered by HC. Therefore, the competitor never activated the target movement.
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Spend 30min on your hands and knees in the living room looking for parts and you will know the difference.
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I will have to echo the sentiments of the other posters. Here in the Sooner State we run and gun. Rarely are you forced into non-freestyle positions. There is the occasional VTAC wall, but mostly the stages are presented and you solve them as you wish.
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My experience is with .308 but should still be relevant. I've got LC and FC nato cross cases with 4 loading and counting. Annealing is crucial if you plan on making the brass last. I've not bought an X-die set, but that will be this winters project.
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There are things children should not do.
IMO, SUPERVISING people running with loaded firearms and shooting at multiple targets is one of them.
Everyday I see "ADULTS" with more money than smarts doing things a hell of a lot more dangerous than running with a loaded firearm. If you think a 12yr old RO is dangerous then I'd suggest you not drive on most US city streets.
It's been stated before in this thread and is the absolute bottom line. The fool holding the gun is absolutely and always responsible for what happens when those bullets leave the muzzle.
"Shooter ready?" or "Are you ready?"
in USPSA/IPSC Rules
Posted
I agree that the chit chat needs to be cut out. However the rules dont allow for all the commands/instructions that I might need to give before the start signal. A few that come to mind are getting the squad to pipe down, telling the shooter to afix eyes/ears, your shoelace is untied, etc. If a shooter makes ready in response to any command other than "make ready" thats on them, no question.