d_striker Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 3 hours ago, Gooldylocks said: I mean, everyone is going to be affected by getting additional runs at a stage. But if you were able to shoot the match the whole way through with one gun, take a short break and the shoot it all the way through again, take a short break and shoot it a third time, I don't think it would be that huge of an advantage. And I think as far as getting a balanced test goes, that would be the best way to control your variables Or you could just shoot open 10 for the match and see how many of the limited GM's beat you just using their 140's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Or you could just shoot open 10 for the match and see how many of the limited GM's beat you just using their 140's. I'm not going to spend the money on a match fee to just give my competition a soft win. And we don't have any limited GMs locally, just open (me) and production. Additionally it also wouldn't be nearly as powerful from a data standpoint, because having the same person shoot all 3 types of guns would eliminate any issues of different skill level creating the difference in scores,and allow for more confidence in saying which set of equipment is more beneficial.I offered you a willing GM and proposed a very good experimental design, and yet you still seem to cling to the big stick being the most important. When I first wrote the comment of opening up stage plans in certain situations and stuff, I was referring to the difference between 140 and 170mm mags. Any high cap gun is going to carry a significant advantage over a low capacity, but I still think the dot would take the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman57 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 On 3/23/2017 at 4:40 AM, Hi-Power Jack said: Yes, with whopping 10 round .38 super mags. Yes we did!!! 1989...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) On 3/25/2017 at 0:59 AM, Gooldylocks said: I'm not going to spend the money on a match fee to just give my competition a soft win. And we don't have any limited GMs locally, just open (me) and production. Additionally it also wouldn't be nearly as powerful from a data standpoint, because having the same person shoot all 3 types of guns would eliminate any issues of different skill level creating the difference in scores,and allow for more confidence in saying which set of equipment is more beneficial. I offered you a willing GM and proposed a very good experimental design, and yet you still seem to cling to the big stick being the most important. When I first wrote the comment of opening up stage plans in certain situations and stuff, I was referring to the difference between 140 and 170mm mags. Any high cap gun is going to carry a significant advantage over a low capacity, but I still think the dot would take the day. I think I'm biased because I've only been shooting a dot for a little while and am still figuring it out. Don't get me wrong...I think the dot certainly has its advantages in certain areas. But inside 12 yards, I personally don't see the advantage. And on close partials, my offset seems to either penalize me or slows me down if I'm scared of clipping a no shoot. I'm not clinging to anything...Just offering some discussion points of a different opinion. Again, I think it would be very stage dependent but I'm interested in seeing your results, though I think for the experiment to be truly valid, one would need to be a GM in both Limited and Open. Edited March 26, 2017 by d_striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 On 25/03/2017 at 1:32 PM, d_striker said: That sounds like a good experiment. I think it's largely dependent on stage design. If it's an entire match of run here shoot 8, run there shoot 8, etc., then I think it'd prob be a wash. A GM isn't going to lose much, if any, time reloading if they have a good amount of space between arrays. If there are stages where you can shoot out of one position and into another with not a lot of room for reloads, big stick/irons takes it. What happened to: "I would put my money on a GM with a big stick and irons in a 10 stage match over the same GM with 10 rounds mags and a dot. That is a no brainer." Now you're saying it's even or close. I thought it was a no brainer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) On 3/26/2017 at 9:33 PM, BeerBaron said: What happened to: "I would put my money on a GM with a big stick and irons in a 10 stage match over the same GM with 10 rounds mags and a dot. That is a no brainer." Now you're saying it's even or close. I thought it was a no brainer? In a 10 stage major, yes...I'd put money on a GM with a big stick and irons. If it's a 5 stage local with run here shoot, run there shoot, yeah, it'd be close. ETA-Here are some stages from different local matches in the past 3 months. If the stages are like this, I'd give 100 to 1 odds that a Limited GM with irons/big stick would annihilate an Open GM shooting Open 10... Edited March 29, 2017 by d_striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfisher Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 On March 23, 2017 at 3:40 AM, Hi-Power Jack said: Yes, with whopping 10 round .38 super mags. My first open gun was a 10mm single stack, then converted that to a 38super. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHLChris Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 But he's talking about using a Limited gun in Open, right? The extra 30mm of mag wouldn't give all that much of an advantage. The dot is the difference. So many here are comparing 170mm mags to a 10rd limit, but really the advantage for mags in Open is just an extra 30mm. I think the dot is way bigger an advantage than is the comp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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