Resjudicata Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Anybody know if the mag disconnect in a Hi-Power has to be installed to satisfy the rule in Metallic Division that all "safety" devices have to function? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allgoodhits Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Anybody know if the mag disconnect in a Hi-Power has to be installed to satisfy the rule in Metallic Division that all "safety" devices have to function?Chris Chris, Your question is an excellent one, and the question would apply to all divisions, since the rules which may or may not apply to the question cover Open, Metallic & Production guns equally. Sadly, I believe the magazine disconnect is a safety device, therefore it needs to work as intended by the manufacturer. I am not saying that this should be the case, but I think it is the case based on the written rules. Perhaps this one will be set aside as an exception. This is a perfect example of why rules of this nature need to be reviewed by shooters and gun owners before the administrators launch their law of the land for all to follow. Good question, Chris, and I am anxious to hear the ruling on this one. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRAActionPistol Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Anybody know if the mag disconnect in a Hi-Power has to be installed to satisfy the rule in Metallic Division that all "safety" devices have to function?Chris Chris, Your question is an excellent one, and the question would apply to all divisions, since the rules which may or may not apply to the question cover Open, Metallic & Production guns equally. Sadly, I believe the magazine disconnect is a safety device, therefore it needs to work as intended by the manufacturer. I am not saying that this should be the case, but I think it is the case based on the written rules. Perhaps this one will be set aside as an exception. This is a perfect example of why rules of this nature need to be reviewed by shooters and gun owners before the administrators launch their law of the land for all to follow. Good question, Chris, and I am anxious to hear the ruling on this one. Martin Chris & Martin, We would agree that the Magazine disconnect would be a safety device, but Martin brings up a good point, so with that said, we will contact the Chief Referee, and get his opinion, then ask a representative from Browning to find what the intent of the Magazine Disconnect is. We all know why most people disable the Magazine Disconnect, this may or may not be the deciding factor. We will let you know ASAP, when we get outside information. Tom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resjudicata Posted January 15, 2010 Author Share Posted January 15, 2010 Anybody know if the mag disconnect in a Hi-Power has to be installed to satisfy the rule in Metallic Division that all "safety" devices have to function?Chris Chris, Your question is an excellent one, and the question would apply to all divisions, since the rules which may or may not apply to the question cover Open, Metallic & Production guns equally. Sadly, I believe the magazine disconnect is a safety device, therefore it needs to work as intended by the manufacturer. I am not saying that this should be the case, but I think it is the case based on the written rules. Perhaps this one will be set aside as an exception. This is a perfect example of why rules of this nature need to be reviewed by shooters and gun owners before the administrators launch their law of the land for all to follow. Good question, Chris, and I am anxious to hear the ruling on this one. Martin Chris & Martin, We would agree that the Magazine disconnect would be a safety device, but Martin brings up a good point, so with that said, we will contact the Chief Referee, and get his opinion, then ask a representative from Browning to find what the intent of the Magazine Disconnect is. We all know why most people disable the Magazine Disconnect, this may or may not be the deciding factor. We will let you know ASAP, when we get outside information. Tom... Thanks guys. I'm kinda still trying to figure out which of my guns is the most accurate to use for Cup shooting. The Hi-Power while not the best overall option may still be an option. However, the magazine disconnect removal may prevent it from being a viable candidate. As far as the rule goes, I'm just trying to find out what is allowed without making a comment on whether it should be allowed. Every sport has rules we may not think should exist but, they do. I just want to make sure I know what it is before committing myself. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Magazine disconnects are installed as another way to prevent the manufacturer being sued if someone just picks up a handgun and pulls on the trigger, it is the most useless "safety" device known to mankind, any manufacturer who installs them is in my opinion doing the shooting industry a diservice. As for AP. The problem is that as the rules are written if the individual firearm was originally manufactured with it (ie it left the factory with one in) then it must be there to compete. But it is not a true safety device like a thumb safety, as it is immediately disabled when a magazine is inserted to load and make ready. No other safety device works this way. All other external and internal safety mechanisms are disabled by the shooter after the draw as he or she is actually in the act of firing the firearm. Thumb Safety - obvious Grip Safety - also obvious Firing Pin Safety (where installed) - is either operated by the movement of the trigger (1911, Glock, Sig etc etc) or grip safety (Kimber) I would expect that the magazine safety interpretation would go the way of commensense (but don't count on it), and the removal of it should not be penalised as it will cause more problems that cure. FOR ONE. When showing clear, the shooter will have to insert an unloaded magazine into the firearm to drop the hammer at the end of a match. This will cause confusion among some range staff who are not familiar with this system. I have, wherever possible, removed magazine safeties from my firearms. If not the firearm is moved on or not purchased in the first instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9146gt Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 How do we get in touch with the Chief Referee? Was a decision ever made on this? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Got point. Nice to get an answer before May. Just to add alittle more fuel to the fire. Browning have a removable magazine safety on the Browning Buckmark. Therefore they see it as something that is for the shooter to decide on whether it needs to be there or not. The mag safety on the Model 41 is easily removed. But we do not shoot rimfire a lot at Bianchi Cup, but the rules do have provision for Rimfire and the rules are applied at all sanction NRA Matches, not just the Cup. Ruger (Match Sponsor, thank you) have released the MK3 target with a magazine disconnect (I won't buy one unless they tell me how to remove it). BUT wisely removed it from the SR9 (which I will buy) S&W have done it for years and a bunch of other guns are coming out with it all the time. I friggin hate them, not needed. So what's the answer. 42?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griz Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Where are rulings by the Chief Referee officially posted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 What an excellent question. Last ruling I saw by the chief referee were in the lobby at the Holiday Inn in Columbia, but that is as useless as a chocolate teapot. Contact Tom Hughes, (sorry Tom) and he will either lead you to them or find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allgoodhits Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 What an excellent question. Last ruling I saw by the chief referee were in the lobby at the Holiday Inn in Columbia, but that is as useless as a chocolate teapot. Contact Tom Hughes, (sorry Tom) and he will either lead you to them or find out. "useless as a chocolate teapot", I love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Then there is the good ole "chocolate shotgun" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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