SIG P238 Problems

[Flint]

When my Sig P238 came back last time, it had quit chomping on the brass (occassionally tossing it in my face). So I am thinking that dinged brass is not a good thing if it consistently does this. Once here or there, no biggie, but I've had a lot. I will wander up and check the back on the recent ones......(please hold as I scurry about the property, seems like it was over in the North Wing )..... OK I'm back and the report is they all looked good no bashed brass recently. I've heard of folks changing recoil springs at 500 rounds as they get weak. But last I looked Sig did not have on the website.

Hopefully will get mine back to try on the weekend - for the final time.

[Duane Thomas]

One way or the other, right?

[Flint]

One way or the other, right?

Yes.

Also did get a "satisfaction survey" from Sig, which I did fill out. It was actually theraputic as I tend to be Mr. Calm, but I let my experiences be known in a straight forward and factual manner.

They are supposed to be confidential, so I will not hear anything back from Sig - like usual.

But I have a nice pile of brass that needs to be reloaded on the 1050.

Thanks all - hopefully I got the last "bad" one.

[Duane Thomas]

Feel special.

[DougCarden]

Having shot a lot of the small guns, I would recommend changing the recoil spring assy. every 500 rounds.

What I used to do was have three springs. One that I have shot 1-200 rounds and know the guns runs 100%. I then have another to put in for practice. I then have a 3rd one that is marked/kept new so I can compare the carry spring and know when I should use the "carry" spring for practice and put the new one in. You see the pattern.

That worked OK for me when I carried and used Kahrs a lot, and also Bill Laughridge thought it was a good idea for the little guns as well....as he told me, they are not meant to be shot alot....period.

Thanks for all the good info!

DougC

[CutterH]

I got to the range again today and put 50 rounds of Fiocchi 95gr FMJ through my P238. It performed without a hiccup, as usual. I picked up the brass and brought it back to my house to give it some further inspection, and I had a few interesting findings.

Across the brass I collected, I found 4 separate types of marks. To clarify, I'll locate the marks on the brass like numbers on a clock, looking at the primer with the extractor at 3 o'clock.

1) Mark from the extractor on the rim (3 o'clock)

2) Diagonal ding halfway down the case (4 o'clock)

3) Ding on very edge of casing (1 o'clock)

4) Horizontal dings very near edge of casing (location varied from 12-2)

Now for more insight into these marks.

1) Mark from the extractor on the rim (3 o'clock)

This was on every case fired. This is common mark and I assume on every cartridge ejected from any gun. I've never really inspected my spent brass, so I can't compare to any others, but it seemed normal to me. In hindsight, should have saved some of the 40 and 45 I shot too.

2) Diagonal ding halfway down the case (4 o'clock)

This was the first mark that I found on the brass. This was on around 90% of the casings. I was unsure what it was from, until I loaded the gun and watched it eject a case. This mark is from the case hitting the magazine feed lip as it is ejected from the gun.

3) Ding on very edge of casing (1 o'clock)

These are where things start to get interesting. About 80% of the brass had almost a "smudge" mark on the tip of the casing. After watching the gun cycle, I don't have a real hunch as to where these come from.

4) Horizontal dings very near edge of casing (location varied from 12-2)

I feel like these are the most serious of the markings. They vary in location and depth, and only occur on around 15% of the brass. Again, I don't know where they come from.

I originally thought that the type 3 and 4 markings were the same, just of a different degree, but I came across some brass that included both.

Again, I am no expert on brass. If these are common markings, I'm sorry for wasting your time. If you would like, there are some higher res versions available directly from the flickr account I set up for forum posting here. And for reference, this is from my two-tone Sig Sauer P238, with serial number in the early 4000's purchased in September 2009.

I hope these help!

Cutter

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(Edited AGAIN for formatting)

Edited March 4, 2010 by TXAG_2010

[R A Miller]

Cutter, thanks for taking the time to take the photos of your brass. That helps me. A good portion of the spent brass from my P238 looks much worse than yours. My brass looks like the brass is the photos Flint posted in Post #1.

And thanks for posting the information on the recoil springs Doug C. I think your recommendation for changing the recoil spring every 500 rounds is appropriate for the P238 and other small pistols. It also reminds me that I need to change the recoil springs in some of my Kahrs.

Rick

[cyclone336]

I've heard of folks changing recoil springs at 500 rounds as they get weak. But last I looked Sig did not have on the website.

Not to thread drift, but I am also confused. Where are you guys getting new recoil springs from?

[Flint]

Thanks for replies.

Been out of town for over a week. Expected to come home and find it sitting here, wrong. But will give it another week before I call. Maybe each time it comes back to them they bump the skill level of the person working on it?

My new recoil springs are from Sig - they put them on and an extra in the box. You can get Wolff springs for the Colt original in either 11# or 12#, but who knows what it needs. Just another Sig Corporate Blunder in my book.

And yes, 500 rounds would be the safe time to change them out. Sig says 1,500 which gives us an idea as to the abuse these tiny springs really take.

As far as TXAG-2010's brass, looks good to me... So maybe that is an indication your's is running fine?

I'll update if/when I get it back.

[CutterH]

It really is a shame Sig isn't being more cooperative.

Cutter

[Flint]

Well... Sig has had it the entire month of March, in their hands sitting at the front door on the 1st.... So we are just short of three weeks on it. Did call last week and they said maybe they might look at it next (this) week.

No word, presuming it is being looked at by somebody different.

Did buy a Kahr P380, which after the breakin has ran 195 rounds without a hitch, so I have a new friend there.

[stryfox]

I don't have any answers but T have a 238 with the stainless slide.

250-300 rounds so far, mostly American Eagle, and some hollow points

Only problems I had were in the first 15 rounds ftf

I will look at my brass next time I shoot it and report back, I do not load for 380 so I just swept them up and tosses them in the bucket.

I have been pleasantly surprised with how mine shoots. I hope you get your problems sorted out.

[Flint]

OK, after spending all of March basically at Sig (3rd time), they sent it back. With a couple extra recoil springs for my trouble I guess - not impressed as I now have 5 or 6.

They changed the hammer, trigger bar and that is it. Did nothing about the chatter marks in the hood that developed after the last "fix".

Could the hammer really cause failure to return to battery? I would ride the hammer some, but it easily moved out of the way.

Well, only one way to find out, as soon as I get time and decent weather I will clean it up and attempt to put 200 rounds through it.

Will let you know.

[Flint]

New failure issues, so Sig is sending a new one, which I will sell.

THE END of the P238.

[Duane Thomas]

There does come a time when the only real decision is to trashcan an entire approach and start over with something else.

[CutterH]

Well, you gave it your best.

[Flint]

Well, you gave it your best.

LOL

Yep and somewhere around 1,300 factory rounds of 380. If I did not have the Dillon - that would have really made me mad. But I just keep cleaning it and setting it aside, must be getting close to 2,000 or so. Must be time for me to make another batch - (still have 800 light loads for plinking). Next batch will be for carry - Kahr P380.

And thanks for all the input here gentlemen. Wonderful site Brian has here for us. A much kinder and gentle world, than so many other sites.

Now off to look for scopes and 308 recipies for getting into some longrange FUN!