.45 ACP die selection for L-N-L AP

[Todd B.]

Hi All,

I'm a brand new reloader, just got a Hornady L-N-L AP and I'm trying to decide the best setup to reload .45 ACP.

I plan reload 230 gr FMJ and 200 gr SWC bullets

I was thinking of using the Redding Pro Carbide die set but I just noticed it does not come with an expander. Can you recommend a high quality die set to start off?

Tell me if this setup looks right:

Station 1 - Size / De-prime

Station 2 - Expand

Station 3 - Charge

Station 4 - Powder Cop

Station 5 - Seat / Crimp

Or would this be better:

Station 1 - Size / De-prime

Station 2 - Expand / Thru - Charge

Station 3 - Powder Cop

Station 4 - Seat

Station 5 - Taper Crimp

I'd like to get setup the right way to start off rather than fumbling my way through and having to replace a bunch of stuff down the road as I learn. I'd like to do it right the first time.

thanks for the help.

-todd

[Jim M.]

Hi, Todd:

I was thinking of using the Redding Pro Carbide die set but I just noticed it does not come with an expander. Can you recommend a high quality die set to start off?

Congratulations on your purchase. Nothing like starting with a really good press!

There are several high quality die sets, but I can't think of any that are significantly better (or any better) than the Redding.

Many die sets do not come with an expander because most pistol reloaders nowadays use a progressive press, and will combine the neck expanding and powder drop into a single stage. Since you have the LNL, those come with the Hornady powder measure and a "case activated powder drop" die. you only need to add a "powder through expander" for the caliber you want to reload. For the .45 ACP, you will need a .451 expander, Hornady Part No. 290044. There is also a .452 expander for the .45 Colt, Part No. 290046, but those are fairly hard to come by. I had to get mine directly from Hornady.

Tell me if this setup looks right:

Station 1 - Size / De-prime

Station 2 - Expand

Station 3 - Charge

Station 4 - Powder Cop

Station 5 - Seat / Crimp

Or would this be better:

Station 1 - Size / De-prime

Station 2 - Expand / Thru - Charge

Station 3 - Powder Cop

Station 4 - Seat

Station 5 - Taper Crimp

I like setup 2 better. I don't see any reason not to expand and drop powder in the same stage. That also leaves room for the separate seat and crimp, which I prefer.

I'd like to get setup the right way to start off rather than fumbling my way through and having to replace a bunch of stuff down the road as I learn. I'd like to do it right the first time.

If you get it completely right the first time, and don't have to replace something down the road, you will probably be the first reloader to do so!

What kind of gun are you going to be shooting these loads in? Guns without a fully supported chamber (or range brass originally fired in such a gun) might benefit from some other kind of sizing die. Also, I find that the Lee "Factory Crimp Die" works to produce better feeding ammunition than most other crimp dies. I would add one of those, whatever brand of die set you use. That's a personal opinion -- many will agree, and a few will disagree. Your choice!

Jim M.

[irq23]

I like the Dillon Decapper/resizer and Hornady everything else. If you have the old LnL with the wire ejector make sure you use a Hornady taper crimp. If you have the new one the skies the limit (although I think the Hornady dies are very good).

Edited November 25, 2009 by irq23

[Todd B.]

Thanks for the quick responses.

Jim, These will be fired out of a custom Para P-14 with a Kart barrel. I believe it's a supported chamber.

thanks again,

-todd

[irq23]

Oh, BTW IMHO the powder cop type dies are kinda worthless. The one that just moves up and down you will never really look at. Just train yourself to look in the case before putting a bullet on. I think you get more reliable ammo seating and crimping in separate stations. YMMV.

[Jeff686]

Oh, BTW IMHO the powder cop type dies are kinda worthless. The one that just moves up and down you will never really look at. Just train yourself to look in the case before putting a bullet on. I think you get more reliable ammo seating and crimping in separate stations. YMMV.

I'll second that! With 45, it is much ease to look into the case as you place the bullet.

[Jim M.]

I agree with irq23 that the Hornady Powder Cop die and the similar RCBS Powder Cop die are not too useful. I used an RCBS Powder Cop Die on my old Hornady Projector, and it requires enough concentration to remember to look at the plunger at the top of the ram travel every stroke. But, to me, looking in the case before you put the bullet in is also easy to skip if you get distracted by a feed jam or some external event. I prefer a powder check system that doesn't require complete concentration on that one die at one point in the ram travel.

I use a Dillon Powder Check System on my new Hornady LNL AP, The obvious place for the Powder Check System on the Hornady press in at station 3. The Powder Check System mounts on a Dillon powder die. I put a Dillon powder die in the bushing at that station, and the operating rod for the Powder Check System does not clear the frame of the press. I marked the required clearance and removed enough material from the frame to clear the operating rod, using a Dremel grinding bit and sanding drum. I have not yet painted the slot cut in the frame, but one poster on a web site stated that Ford Red paint was a close color match. I will get some of that paint at an automotive paint store.

Once I had the proper clearance for the operating rod, the washer on the bottom of the operating rod was too small to contact the sub-plate when the sub-plate comes up. Of course, I knew that from reading posts on the Internet and from my measurements. I bought a couple of washers to try, and the 1-1/4" diameter proved to be exactly right. I also bought a few extra 10-24 hex nuts to secure the washer on the operating rod, and two nuts for adjustment. One nut is used for the adjustment, and the second is used as jam nut to hold the adjustment when the adjustment screw and washer are removed in order to remove the Powder Check System.

The installation was fairly easy and went well. The Dillon Powder Check System works very well on the Hornady press.

I recommend that to anyone running one of these presses.

Todd, your custom Para P-14 with a Kart barrel should feed just about anything that meets specs. Only if you have trouble with cases feeding completely into the chamber should you consider a tighter or small-base sizing die. I have used both a standard RCBS sizing die and an EGW "U" die. Both work well. I only tried the "U" die because I already had it (from another press), and wanted to compare it to the RCBS die. No difference, in my short experiments, on the LNL. I think the standard Redding dies (with the addition of a Lee factory crimp die) will work well, also.

Jim M.

[Todd B.]

Well, it looks like I won't have a long wait for primers. Graf & Sons just called to let me know my primers were shipping. I just placed the order last week and at that time they told me they were shiping nackorders from April. I guess I need to get my dies ordered asap.

How does this setup look?:

Station 1 - Redding Pro Series FL size / deprime

Station 2 - Hornady powder thru expander

Station 3 - Future powder check

Station 4 - Redding Pro Series seater

Station 5 - Redding Pro Series taper crimp

Or should I use a seperate expander die in station 2 until I get the power check station running?

Station 1 - Redding Pro Series FL size / deprime

Station 2 - Redding expander die

Station 3 - Powder charge

Station 4 - Redding Pro Series seater

Station 5 - Redding Pro Series taper crimp

thanks again.

-todd

[Alwaystryin]

I use the RCBS lockout die in the station after the powder drop. If the charge is under or over the whole machine totally locks up. You never have to look at it and no lite charges.

[irq23]

Well, it looks like I won't have a long wait for primers. Graf & Sons just called to let me know my primers were shipping. I just placed the order last week and at that time they told me they were shiping nackorders from April. I guess I need to get my dies ordered asap.

How does this setup look?:

Station 1 - Redding Pro Series FL size / deprime

Station 2 - Hornady powder thru expander

Station 3 - Future powder check

Station 4 - Redding Pro Series seater

Station 5 - Redding Pro Series taper crimp

Or should I use a seperate expander die in station 2 until I get the power check station running?

Station 1 - Redding Pro Series FL size / deprime

Station 2 - Redding expander die

Station 3 - Powder charge

Station 4 - Redding Pro Series seater

Station 5 - Redding Pro Series taper crimp

thanks again.

-todd

If you use lead bullets the Hornady powder through expander doesnt work. It only works for jacketed. The problem is it doesnt expand enough for lead and you get bullets shaving.

[Jim M.]

If you use lead bullets the Hornady powder through expander doesnt work. It only works for jacketed. The problem is it doesnt expand enough for lead and you get bullets shaving.

I use the Hornady powder through expander and load lead bullets most of the time. It can be adjusted to get a proper flare on the case mouth to load lead bullets without shaving. I do admit that it is a bit more of a hassle to adjust than the Dillon powder through expanders, but it does work. That is why I have a Quick Change Powder Die with a separate lock ring for each caliber I load on the LNL. Once a Powder Die is adjusted for a given caliber, I keep that die (on its own bushing) in the die box with the rest of the dies for that caliber when it's not on the press.

Oh, by the way, once a powder die is adjusted for a given caliber (loading lead bullets), I also load jacketed bullets with the same die and setup with no further adjustments.

They do work. It just requires a bit more time to adjust them.

Jim M.

[irq23]

If you use lead bullets the Hornady powder through expander doesnt work. It only works for jacketed. The problem is it doesnt expand enough for lead and you get bullets shaving.

I use the Hornady powder through expander and load lead bullets most of the time. It can be adjusted to get a proper flare on the case mouth to load lead bullets without shaving. I do admit that it is a bit more of a hassle to adjust than the Dillon powder through expanders, but it does work. That is why I have a Quick Change Powder Die with a separate lock ring for each caliber I load on the LNL. Once a Powder Die is adjusted for a given caliber, I keep that die (on its own bushing) in the die box with the rest of the dies for that caliber when it's not on the press.

Oh, by the way, once a powder die is adjusted for a given caliber (loading lead bullets), I also load jacketed bullets with the same die and setup with no further adjustments.

They do work. It just requires a bit more time to adjust them.

Jim M.

I tried adjusting it and I could never get it to work for .45. How did you get it to work?

Edited November 28, 2009 by irq23

[Jim M.]

Adjusting Case Flare on LNL Press

I don't know that there are any particular secrets or tricks to adjusting the case mouth flare of cases to load unjacketed lead bullets without shaving lead. Here's what I know:

First, make sure that the press is clean under the shellplate and around the whole circumference around the subplate. The bolt that holds the shellplate has to be tight, but not so tight as to cause it to bind the shellplate. Raise the ram about 2" and place a block of wood (I use a short section of scrap 2"x4" wood) under the subplate to hold it up. Put the shellplate in place and tighten the bolt snug, then loosen it about 1/8 of a turn. The shellplate should rotate freely by hand, but click distinctly into the notches. The object here is to remove as much wobble as possible from the shellplate, but still allow it to turn freely.

I install and adjust my dies (the first time) in the order the cases encounter them. Thus, the sizing die goes in first, and is adjusted for full length sizing, but not striking the shellplate. It won't require further adjustment.

The powder drop die and powder measure are installed and adjusted next. Unfortunately, this die may require further small adjustments (on the order of 1/8 to 1/16 of a turn) later, when the seating and crimp dies are added and adjusted. Install the drop tube on the powder measure. I think it's a good idea to add a small drop of Loctite to the threads. This thing will give you fits if it works loose. Put the proper powder through expander in the powder die (Hornady calls it a measure adapter), and mount that in a bushing with a Hornady lock ring installed on the measure adapter.

With no dies in the press other than the sizing die and the powder measure adapter, mount the powder measure on the measure adapter. At this point, don't have any powder in the powder measure, but install the proper metering insert that you expect to use. Don't worry about the powder amount adjustment until you get the case flare adjusted. Cycle a single case through the sizing die and to the measure adapter. Bring the ram all the way up, and the case should operate the case activated powder measure assembly. Check to see how high the metering insert comes up in the slot in the powder measure. It should come up exactly to the top of that slot. If not (and it probably won't the first time), adjust the powder die ("measure adapter") up or down until the metering insert comes up exactly to the top of the slot when the ram is raised. Lowering the measure adapter (turn it clockwise) raises the metering insert in the slot. Raising the measure adapter (turn it counter-clockwise) lowers the metering insert in the slot at the top of the ram travel, in case you get too much lift.

In order to keep the proper orientation of the powder measure, loosen the two screws on the mounting clamp and rotate the powder measure slightly as needed to get the proper orientation. The metering insert can be pointed directly toward the center of the press, but I orient mine to point about halfway between the center of the press and the sizing die, in order to provide operating clearance for a Dillon Powder Check System that I have installed in station three. This orientation is not critical. Just set it up so that it doesn't interfere with anything else on the press, and always make these small orientation adjustments by loosening the two screws on the mounting clamp, and not by rotating the measure adapter in the bushing. That throws off the case flare adjustment!

That adjustment, with the metering insert right at the top of the slot in the powder measure with the ram all the way up, is the STARTING POINT for adjusting the case flare. If you don't get to this starting point correctly, frustration follows. Once you are at the starting point, the case should be neck expanded properly, but with NO FLARE. That will work for jacketed bullets, but not for lead bullets. Now, we have to add the proper amount of flare.

Lead bullets will get lubricant on the seating die and the crimp die. There will also be some fragments of lead (not shavings) that are still stuck to the bullets from the sizing and lubing operation. Those should be an absolute minimum. Seat and crimp dies still need to be cleaned regularly. I figure on cleaning my seating and crimp dies every 500 rounds. If the dies get enough buildup of lube to start affecting bullet seating depth in less than 500 rounds, the case flare should be increased slightly. (Or, buy better bullets!)

That slight adjustment is something that may go on every several hundred rounds for the first few thousand rounds loaded to get the case flare set just right. After that, it shouldn't require further adjustment.

The rest of this description if for the .45 ACP. I always adjust the press for loading lead bullets, because there has to be a minimum amount of flare, or the lead bullets will be shaved. Once adjusted for lead bullets, the same adjustment works for jacketed bullets.

I am loading "Impact Bullets", made by Glenmark Enterprises. Good bullets, by the way. They are a SWC that the box says are sized to .452". My bullets actually measure .453".

Once your measure adapter is at the Starting Point, run a single case through (still no powder). The Starting Point is the adjustment at which all mechanical slack in the case activation linkage is taken up, and the powder measure is activated to the full stop with the metering insert at the top of the slot in the powder measure. Any further movement upwards of the case, pushed by the ram, must result in adding case mouth flare to the case. If the case has a case mouth flare on this first case, you are slightly past the Starting Point. Your cases should measure about .448" inside the case mouth at this point.

Now, we are going to add case mouth flare to get the proper amount for bullet seating without bullet shaving. Turning the measure adapter could potentially lower the die (and the powder measure) .071" per turn, but we aren't going to need that much adjustment. I have found that one-half a turn from the Starting Point will create a lot of case mouth flare -- maybe even too much. So we will work in smaller increments.

You lower the measure adapter by turning it clockwise in the bushing. At the same time, you will have to loosen the two screws in the mounting clamp and rotate the mounting clamp (powder measure and all) slightly to keep the proper orientation. Try turning the measure adapter clockwise 1/8 of a turn at first, and then turning the mounting clamp on the measure adapter and re-tightening the two clamp screws. Run a case through the sizing die and the powder measure adapter and check for the amount of case mouth flare.

As mentioned above, my cases measure .448" I.D. after sizing and neck expanding (with no flare), and my bullets measure .453". I lower the measure adapter slowly (about 1/8 of a turn at a time), testing a case after each adjustment, until I get a case mouth flare of about .455" (inside measurement). That doesn't sound like much, but it is enough to start lead bullets without shaving (at least those bullets that measure no larger than .453".) For a reference, the OUTSIDE diameter of my empty cases BELOW THE START OF THE CASE FLARE is .468", and the maximum OUTSIDE measurement at the top of the case mouth is .478".

Really, though, all of these measurements are of little importance, except in trying to convey what you can't see from a long distance. Just lower the measure adapter die about 1/8 of a turn at a time until YOUR bullets will start in the case without bullet shaving. I suggest that a case flare of just .002" greater than bullet diameter will work quite well. I get easy bullet starting and long case life with that measurement.

AFTER you have reached this point, lower the lock ring down against the bushing and lock it tight. Add primers and powder, and set your powder measure for the proper powder charge. That shouldn't change the amount of case mouth flare. Then, add the bullet seating die and adjust for correct O.A.L. Add the crimp die and adjust that.

Now, with two new dies added at stations 4 and 5 and cases at all stages, you might find that the case mouth flare has changed slightly. This change has never been more than a few thousandths of an inch for me, but if it causes lead shaving or excess case mouth flare, adjust the measure adapter as required to get the case mouth flare back exactly where you want it. CAREFUL! This adjustment should not take more than 1/16 or 1/8 of a turn of the powder measure adapter. Make small adjustments until you get it exactly where you want it, then lock down the lock ring.

This adjustment should not change once you have it correct. If it does, suspect something else wrong. The O-rings on the Hornady bushings allow a little bit of slack. I have heard that Hornady can supply a shim to fit between the bushing and the O-ring if yours has too much movement. Call Hornady Tech Support. I think those shims are free for the asking, but I'm not associated with Hornady, so I can't say for sure.

Once you get this proper case flare adjustment, your LNL should be able to load lead bullets with no problems. Case lube build-up in the sizing and crimp dies will still require cleaning those dies about every 500 rounds. That is a function of the lube on the bullets, not the case mouth flare or the loading machine. But if you notice shaving or excess lube build-up before 500 rounds, I would increase the case mouth flare (about 1/16 or 1/8 of a turn on the measure adapter) to clear that up.

Good loading!

Jim M.

Edited November 29, 2009 by Jim M.

[irq23]

Adjusting Case Flare on LNL Press

I don’t know that there are any particular secrets or tricks to adjusting the case mouth flare of cases to load unjacketed lead bullets without shaving lead. Here’s what I know:

First, make sure that the press is clean under the shellplate and around the whole circumference around the subplate. The bolt that holds the shellplate has to be tight, but not so tight as to cause it to bind the shellplate. Raise the ram about 2" and place a block of wood (I use a short section of scrap 2"x4" wood) under the subplate to hold it up. Put the shellplate in place and tighten the bolt snug, then loosen it about 1/8 of a turn. The shellplate should rotate freely by hand, but click distinctly into the notches. The object here is to remove as much wobble as possible from the shellplate, but still allow it to turn freely.

I install and adjust my dies (the first time) in the order the cases encounter them. Thus, the sizing die goes in first, and is adjusted for full length sizing, but not striking the shellplate. It won’t require further adjustment.

The powder drop die and powder measure are installed and adjusted next. Unfortunately, this die may require further small adjustments (on the order of 1/8 to 1/16 of a turn) later, when the seating and crimp dies are added and adjusted. Install the drop tube on the powder measure. I think it’s a good idea to add a small drop of Loctite to the threads. This thing will give you fits if it works loose. Put the proper powder through expander in the powder die (Hornady calls it a measure adapter), and mount that in a bushing with a Hornady lock ring installed on the measure adapter.

With no dies in the press other than the sizing die and the powder measure adapter, mount the powder measure on the measure adapter. At this point, don’t have any powder in the powder measure, but install the proper metering insert that you expect to use. Don’t worry about the powder amount adjustment until you get the case flare adjusted. Cycle a single case through the sizing die and to the measure adapter. Bring the ram all the way up, and the case should operate the case activated powder measure assembly. Check to see how high the metering insert comes up in the slot in the powder measure. It should come up exactly to the top of that slot. If not (and it probably won’t the first time), adjust the powder die (“measure adapter”) up or down until the metering insert comes up exactly to the top of the slot when the ram is raised. Lowering the measure adapter (turn it clockwise) raises the metering insert in the slot. Raising the measure adapter (turn it counter-clockwise) lowers the metering insert in the slot at the top of the ram travel, in case you get too much lift.

In order to keep the proper orientation of the powder measure, loosen the two screws on the mounting clamp and rotate the powder measure slightly as needed to get the proper orientation. The metering insert can be pointed directly toward the center of the press, but I orient mine to point about halfway between the center of the press and the sizing die, in order to provide operating clearance for a Dillon Powder Check System that I have installed in station three. This orientation is not critical. Just set it up so that it doesn’t interfere with anything else on the press, and always make these small orientation adjustments by loosening the two screws on the mounting clamp, and not by rotating the measure adapter in the bushing. That throws off the case flare adjustment!

That adjustment, with the metering insert right at the top of the slot in the powder measure with the ram all the way up, is the STARTING POINT for adjusting the case flare. If you don’t get to this starting point correctly, frustration follows. Once you are at the starting point, the case should be neck expanded properly, but with NO FLARE. That will work for jacketed bullets, but not for lead bullets. Now, we have to add the proper amount of flare.

Lead bullets will get lubricant on the seating die and the crimp die. There will also be some fragments of lead (not shavings) that are still stuck to the bullets from the sizing and lubing operation. Those should be an absolute minimum. Seat and crimp dies still need to be cleaned regularly. I figure on cleaning my seating and crimp dies every 500 rounds. If the dies get enough buildup of lube to start affecting bullet seating depth in less than 500 rounds, the case flare should be increased slightly. (Or, buy better bullets!)

That slight adjustment is something that may go on every several hundred rounds for the first few thousand rounds loaded to get the case flare set just right. After that, it shouldn’t require further adjustment.

The rest of this description if for the .45 ACP. I always adjust the press for loading lead bullets, because there has to be a minimum amount of flare, or the lead bullets will be shaved. Once adjusted for lead bullets, the same adjustment works for jacketed bullets.

I am loading “Impact Bullets”, made by Glenmark Enterprises. Good bullets, by the way. They are a SWC that the box says are sized to .452". My bullets actually measure .453".

Once your measure adapter is at the Starting Point, run a single case through (still no powder). The Starting Point is the adjustment at which all mechanical slack in the case activation linkage is taken up, and the powder measure is activated to the full stop with the metering insert at the top of the slot in the powder measure. Any further movement upwards of the case, pushed by the ram, must result in adding case mouth flare to the case. If the case has a case mouth flare on this first case, you are slightly past the Starting Point. Your cases should measure about .448" inside the case mouth at this point.

Now, we are going to add case mouth flare to get the proper amount for bullet seating without bullet shaving. Turning the measure adapter could potentially lower the die (and the powder measure .071" per turn, but we aren’t going to need that much adjustment. I have found that one-half a turn from the Starting Point will create a lot of case mouth flare – maybe even too much. So we will work in smaller increments.

You lower the measure adapter by turning it clockwise in the bushing. At the same time, you will have to loosen the two screws in the mounting clamp and rotate the mounting clamp (powder measure and all) slightly to keep the proper orientation. Try turning the measure adapter clockwise 1/8 of a turn at first, and then turning the mounting clamp on the measure adapter and re-tightening the two clamp screws. Run a case through the sizing die and the powder measure adapter and check for the amount of case mouth flare.

As mentioned above, my cases measure .448" I.D. after sizing and neck expanding (with no flare), and my bullets measure .453". I lower the measure adapter slowly (about 1/8 of a turn at a time), testing a case after each adjustment, until I get a case mouth flare of about .455" (inside measurement). That doesn’t sound like much, but it is enough to start lead bullets without shaving (at least those bullets that measure no larger than .453".) For a reference, the OUTSIDE diameter of my empty cases BELOW THE START OF THE CASE FLARE is .468", and the maximum OUTSIDE measurement at the top of the case mouth is .478".

Really, though, all of these measurements are of little importance, except in trying to convey what you can’t see from a long distance. Just lower the measure adapter die about 1/8 of a turn at a time until YOUR bullets will start in the case without bullet shaving. I suggest that a case flare of just .002" greater than bullet diameter will work quite well. I get easy bullet starting and long case life with that measurement.

AFTER you have reached this point, lower the lock ring down against the bushing and lock it tight. Add primers and powder, and set your powder measure for the proper powder charge. That shouldn’t change the amount of case mouth flare. Then, add the bullet seating die and adjust for correct O.A.L. Add the crimp die and adjust that.

Now, with two new dies added at stations 4 and 5 and cases at all stages, you might find that the case mouth flare has changed slightly. This change has never been more than a few thousandths of an inch for me, but if it causes lead shaving or excess case mouth flare, adjust the measure adapter as required to get the case mouth flare back exactly where you want it. CAREFUL! This adjustment should not take more than 1/16 or 1/8 of a turn of the powder measure adapter. Make small adjustments until you get it exactly where you want it, then lock down the lock ring.

This adjustment should not change once you have it correct. If it does, suspect something else wrong. The O-rings on the Hornady bushings allow a little bit of slack. I have heard that Hornady can supply a shim to fit between the bushing and the O-ring if yours has too much movement. Call Hornady Tech Support. I think those shims are free for the asking, but I’m not associated with Hornady, so I can’t say for sure.

Once you get this proper case flare adjustment, your LNL should be able to load lead bullets with no problems. Case lube build-up in the sizing and crimp dies will still require cleaning those dies about every 500 rounds. That is a function of the lube on the bullets, not the case mouth flare or the loading machine. But if you notice shaving or excess lube build-up before 500 rounds, I would increase the case mouth flare (about 1/16 or 1/8 of a turn on the measure adapter) to clear that up.

Good loading!

Jim M.

I am not new to reloading and this is more or less what I did. My problem was that I cold not get enough flare, even at full adjustment, to not shave lead. I am sure the powder through expander is not long enough.

[Jim M.]

I am not new to reloading and this is more or less what I did. My problem was that I could not get enough flare, even at full adjustment, to not shave lead. I am sure the powder through expander is not long enough.

Okay, irq23, diagnostics time!

When you cycle a case normally into the powder drop stage, with the ram all the way up: Is the metering insert all the way up to the top of the slot in the powder measure? Or, does it stop a short distance below the top of the slot, with a gap between the metering insert and the top of that slot?

Check the protrusion of the measure adapter below the bushing. For the .45 ACP, it will probably have to protrude a bit. Just make sure that it doesn't contact the shellplate. Since this case is so short, it doesn't have a lot of room to deal with. The measure adapter can't hit the shellplate, and needs at least .035" of clearance at the STARTING POINT. That's equivalent to about 1/2 turn of the measure adapter when you start adjusting case flare. Any LESS protrusion is good, but don't start with less than .035" of clearance. More is better, but not too much more. Try for .035" to .071" of clearance between the bottom of the measure adapter and the shellplate, with the shellplate all the way up. (Note that this point of beginning is good for the .45 ACP only. Other cases will start with the measure adapter much higher.)

Be careful that you don't adjust the measure adapter too low while you are adjusting things. If you get too close to the shellplate, STOP and go to the adjustment of the Upper Bracket, below.

What is the position of the Upper Bracket (Part No. 12) on the powder measure? Hornady says that these are pre-assembled at the factory, but that doesn't mean that they will fit the very short cases correctly. For the .45 ACP, that Upper Bracket should be all the way to the top of the threads on the powder measure. That means that there might be 1/8" of threads, but no more, on the powder measure ABOVE the Upper Bracket. The Upper Bracket is not threaded, although you might expect it to be since it is clamping onto a threaded lower shaft of the powder measure. Just loosen the two screws on the mounting clamp of the Upper Bracket and slide the Upper Bracket all the way to the top of those threads. That adjustment will give your powder measure the maximum depth (down toward the shellplate) and thereby the maximum amount of case flare adjustment.

CAUTION! When you change the adjustment of the Upper Bracket, go back and re-establish the STARTING POSITION, and adjust case flare from that position. Otherwise, you will ruin a few cases getting the adjustment right. Re-adjust STARTING POSITION after an Upper Bracket adjustment by loosening the Hornady lock ring and moving the measure adapter UP (turn it counter-clockwise) at least as much as you moved the Upper Bracket up. Then, re-establish STARTING POSITION as described in the previous post. As you try to re-establish STARTING POSITION, keep an eye on the space between the measure adapter and the shellplate. If that ever gets too close, go back and move the Upper Bracket up some more.

From that Starting Position, adjust case flare as described in the previous post.

Let us know how it is going! We will get that damned thing to work!

Jim M.

Edited November 29, 2009 by Jim M.

[ben b.]

I load lead, almost exclusively, in .38 Spcl, 9mm, .40 and .45. I used to have to adjust the clamping arm for 9mm, but never for .40 or .45. It doesn't shave lead.

With the cone powder thru adapter PTX, I can now keep the clamping arm in the same position for 9mm, and just trade out the powder die. http://powderfunnels.com/

I find the powder cop works perfectly. There is nothing else to look at when the ram is up. That is when I look at the powder die, before I reach for the next bullet. Every time. If you can remember to check for powder as you drop the bullet, you can remember to look at the powder die when the ram is up.

[Chris Spiess]

http://powderfunnels.com/

Nice! I'll have to pick one of these up. I load Precision Bullets (polymer coated) pretty much exclusively for everything but the open gun. The Hormady PTXs just don't do it for these bullets either. I use a Lyman M die to expand.

[irq23]

Jim I appreciate you trying to help. I basically have done what you are describing. I had to send my press back to Hornady for something unrelated and the tech guy commented that he could not make the Powder thru expander work. I have ordered one of the PTX's from powderfunnels.com (thnx for the link Ben!).

[AriM]

here is my setup....I think the advice given here is excellent so far....

1. Redding Pro/Comp Sizing/Decapping die

2. LnL powder measure with the powderfunels PtX (the trick is getting the linkage set-up proper)

3. RCBS lock-out die

4. Redding Pro/Competition Seater die (with micrometer adjust)

5. Redding Pro taper Crimp Die

007 single stage

1. Hornady collet style bullet puller

2. Lee universal decapping die

3. Lee universal case mouth expander

I seem to be able to do everything I need with this set-up....I like to use BOTH a beam AND digital scale....I am ultra paranoid about deviation between weights...add a few prep tools and you should be golden, for MANY MANY MANY rounds....the only thing I can think of that would be better, would be a 1050...simply because you can set primer seating depth and it primes on the down stroke....but until then....I am quite happy

Edited December 11, 2009 by AriM

[cascade tactical]

I agree with irq23 that the Hornady Powder Cop die and the similar RCBS Powder Cop die are not too useful. I used an RCBS Powder Cop Die on my old Hornady Projector, and it requires enough concentration to remember to look at the plunger at the top of the ram travel every stroke. But, to me, looking in the case before you put the bullet in is also easy to skip if you get distracted by a feed jam or some external event. I prefer a powder check system that doesn't require complete concentration on that one die at one point in the ram travel.

I use a Dillon Powder Check System on my new Hornady LNL AP, The obvious place for the Powder Check System on the Hornady press in at station 3. The Powder Check System mounts on a Dillon powder die. I put a Dillon powder die in the bushing at that station, and the operating rod for the Powder Check System does not clear the frame of the press. I marked the required clearance and removed enough material from the frame to clear the operating rod, using a Dremel grinding bit and sanding drum. I have not yet painted the slot cut in the frame, but one poster on a web site stated that Ford Red paint was a close color match. I will get some of that paint at an automotive paint store.

Once I had the proper clearance for the operating rod, the washer on the bottom of the operating rod was too small to contact the sub-plate when the sub-plate comes up. Of course, I knew that from reading posts on the Internet and from my measurements. I bought a couple of washers to try, and the 1-1/4" diameter proved to be exactly right. I also bought a few extra 10-24 hex nuts to secure the washer on the operating rod, and two nuts for adjustment. One nut is used for the adjustment, and the second is used as jam nut to hold the adjustment when the adjustment screw and washer are removed in order to remove the Powder Check System.

The installation was fairly easy and went well. The Dillon Powder Check System works very well on the Hornady press.

Jim M.

Jim M.:

Do you have any pictures of your setup/adaptation of the Dillon Powder Check on the LNL?

Conceptually I like the idea, but I cannot follow your detailed description.

Thanks

[Jim M.]

Cascade, I will try to take some pictures of my installation (which will not be a problem) and post them (which will be a bit more of a problem).

Several people have done this before I did. I mentioned reading posts in the Internet, and I looked back for one of those that I had bookmarked. This post has good pictures -- probably better than I will be able to manage. And they are available right now.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=324997

My installation looks very similar, except that I have not yet painted the slot that I ground and sanded in the side of the frame, as the poster in this thread has. The slot that I made looks a bit larger than the one in these pictures. Also, having done it myself, I know that the proper size washer that works on the bottom for me is the 1-1/4".

Anyway, I think these pictures will give you an idea of what is involved.

I still do want to post pictures of my installation, because I have also adapted a Dillon low primer warning system to my L-N-L AP. I'm sure others have done that, also, but my method was probably unusual. I use a Dillon RF 100 Automatic Primer Filler. That device loads 100 primers in a tube while the operator continues to load, and when the primer tube on the press is empty, the operator takes the loaded tube from the primer filler and loads those primers into the press tube. In order to do that, the primer filler tube has to match up with the press primer tube. Dillon uses a Magazine Shield Cap, Part No. 13957 (at least on the 1050), which has a cone-shaped opening in the top to guide the primer filler tube into alignment with the reloading press primer tube. Hornady uses a plastic Primer Tube Support (Hornady Part No. 398318) that fits into the primer magazine and holds the primer tube in the center of that magazine. The Dillon Magazine Shield Cap won’t fit over the Hornady Primer Tube Support without modification. I chucked the Dillon Magazine Shield Cap in the lathe and opened up the inside with a grinder and carbide bits so that it was a press fit over the Hornady Primer Tube Support. That is the only significant modification that was necessary.

I know that explanation is fairly long, and doesn't really answer your question, but I hope to post information on both modifications when I get the time to write them up and take pictures.

Meanwhile, take a look at the post on The High Road and maybe that will answer your questions.

Jim M.

[cascade tactical]

Thanks, Jim

The photos in the provided link were very helpful.

I'll have to watch for your thread when you post additional photos, including your Dillon low primer warning.

Sound very sweet. So far I've been tracking on a setup very similar to yours.

CT