stgdz Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 This is something that I have never been able to cure. I shoot a 1911 and dry fire a lot, sights don't move, placed a penny on the front sight it doesn't move, have tried first shot as a surprise, looked at the wheel of truth, etc.... Nothing seems to work. On standard USPSA target at about 7 yards all the shots land in a nice little group to the left of the target (still in the Azone) in a nice little vertical string fashion(this was with 24 rounds). I just can't seem to fix it and it just frustrates the heck out of me. I am going to start shooting some 22's in both revolvers (DA) and ruger SA's but what can I do to fix this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR Gunner Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Read these: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...;hl=left+finger http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...;hl=left+finger http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...;hl=left+finger http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...;hl=left+finger http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...;hl=left+finger And others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Assuming the gun is accurate (it probably is) then the issue is that you are moving the sights before the bullet has left the barrel. Just because you do something correctly in dry fire, doesn't mean you are doing it correctly in live fire. If the wheel of truth is what I think it is, totally ignore it. That chart was made for 1 handed bullseye shooters 50 years ago. The solution is to revisit the fundamentals. Slowly pull the trigger straight to the rear of the gun without moving the sights. If you think you already are, but you're still missing, then you aren't really doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Of course it could be you but before you kill yourself there must be a good shooter that can confirm it first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stgdz Posted September 23, 2009 Author Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) Of course it could be you but before you kill yourself there must be a good shooter that can confirm it first.they confirmed that it was me shooting to the left.With dry firing it goes like this, draw and aim, align sights so that there is a little space between at the front site relative to the rear, pull the trigger to make certain that front sight doesn't waiver back and forth. This is with my 1911 on its really light trigger. When doing double action on the revolvers and pistols that I have borrowed I notice that the sight moves to the left. A HA, I thought but I go back to the 1911 and I don't get the same reaction, just a straight sight. The DA is a clue into solving this issue for me I believe. Edited September 23, 2009 by stgdz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Burtchell Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) You may be doing nothing wrong at all. That's why I like these. Adjust your POA to match your POI. Edited September 23, 2009 by baerburtchell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stgdz Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 You may be doing nothing wrong at all. That's why I like these. Adjust your POA to match your POI. yes, I actually have bomar's on my pistol but I would rather solve the issue with the shooter than mess with the pistol.I got a chance to fire some revolvers this weekend and I noticed that I change my stance to a weaver stance with that. Also when I did this the POI shifted to the bottom right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 You may be doing nothing wrong at all. That's why I like these. Adjust your POA to match your POI. This post has been edited by baerburtchell: Sep 23 2009, 02:35 PM Attached image(s) That actually ranks among the worst advice you can give a shooter. You never want to make it so that if the shooter executes the shot correctly, he misses. I got a chance to fire some revolvers this weekend and I noticed that I change my stance to a weaver stance with that. Also when I did this the POI shifted to the bottom right. That means that's where you are moving the sights to when you pull the trigger. Apply pressure to the trigger twice as slow as you think you should while focusing on the top center of the front sight as hard as you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 1st: 25 yd slow shooting off the bench. Solidify muscle and mental memory of the correct trigger press. 2nd: four or five 1" pieces of tape on a target at about 5 feet. No timer. Shoot 5 shots into each piece of tape. 3nd: Practice 99-09 without a clock. Put a black dot over the A in the center of the target. Last, 3 targets at a distance where you are forced to take a fine front sight focus to get you A hits. Shoot three strings all on the clock. Shoot the first one as slow as you need to get your hits. Shoot the second string as fast as you can pull the trigger. Shoot the third string at match speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Practice 99-09 without a clock. Put a black dot over the A in the center of the target. True that! Shooting this classifier at yesterday's match was a very humbling experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottovonotto Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Try the old ball and dummy drill. Load up some dud ammo, mix it with your live ammo when loading the magazine (a couple of rounds is enough). This works even better if someone else loads your magazine for you. Now shoot the drill of your choice, and observe what happens when you encounter the dummy ammo. This is a good diagnosis drill as it will tell you right then what is happening w/o guessing. Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Try the old ball and dummy drill. Load up some dud ammo, mix it with your live ammo when loading the magazine (a couple of rounds is enough). This works even better if someone else loads your magazine for you. Now shoot the drill of your choice, and observe what happens when you encounter the dummy ammo. This is a good diagnosis drill as it will tell you right then what is happening w/o guessing. This drill unfortunately doesn't differentiate between a flinch and timing the gun. You can pull this drill on any top shooter I know and you will see the gun dip - and they are more than capable of shooting accurately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Burtchell Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) You may be doing nothing wrong at all. That's why I like these. Adjust your POA to match your POI. This post has been edited by baerburtchell: Sep 23 2009, 02:35 PM Attached image(s) That actually ranks among the worst advice you can give a shooter. You never want to make it so that if the shooter executes the shot correctly, he misses. I got a chance to fire some revolvers this weekend and I noticed that I change my stance to a weaver stance with that. Also when I did this the POI shifted to the bottom right. That means that's where you are moving the sights to when you pull the trigger. Apply pressure to the trigger twice as slow as you think you should while focusing on the top center of the front sight as hard as you can. I guess I should have capitalized or emphasized somehow the word MAY in my suggestion. If your groups are nice and tight,but not centered you MAY just need to adjust the sights. IF you are doing every thing right as far as your grip and trigger pull/reset sequence and the groups are STILL not centered I believe a sight adjustment MAY STILL be in order Edited October 5, 2009 by baerburtchell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben b. Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 ...This drill unfortunately doesn't differentiate between a flinch and timing the gun. You can pull this drill on any top shooter I know and you will see the gun dip - and they are more than capable of shooting accurately. I've done this with new shooters and myself, periodically. I find that a timed dip is vertical, and appears to be smaller in magnitude. I see the gun dip straight down in myself. A flinch is nearly always low-left for righties. The two have been distinguishable for me, and it is still a great "A-ha! I didn't know I was doing that!" moment the first time. A "I had no idea I was doing that" response likely indicates an interfering flinch, and it's very informative when someone who doesn't even notice it.BTW, I've been wondering, what is timing, except a trained/disciplined flinch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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