Re-chambering .45LC to "Casull" or .. ?

[Radical Precision Designs]

I have a couple of lever action rifles in .45LC which I use now and then for "Cowboy Action". One of them is a "Puma" in stainless steel, in the 1892 design. The factory offers the same gun chambered in 454 Casull, which can also fire the .45LC cartridges. I should have bought the Casull chambering, but got the 45LC instead.

Now, this is my question/dilema: Should I re-chamber my barrel to the Casull specs. or leave it alone and go a different route like "trimming" the Casull cases down a little bit and then making my own Casull specs. loads ?

What would you do, and why?? And, better yet has anyone of you done it. (No, I don't want to buy another rifle !!! you've got to remember that tinkering is my way of life. )

[cas]

You may want to head over to the forum at Leverguns.com, this type of thing has been discussed at length. (the answer will be don't do it)

Edited May 22, 2009 by cas

[Radical Precision Designs]

You may want to head over to the forum at Leverguns.com, this type of thing has been discussed at length. (the answer will be don't do it)

Thanks for your reply. There are plenty of "other" forums around where you can spend lots of time doing research for opinions, etc. I trust the the opinions and thoughts of THIS forum. It's home for me, even thought it may have a few less shooters interested in "lever action" rifles.

I am looking for more of an answer than just: "don't do it..." Something like a why "don't do it" comes to mind. For instance, don't do the re-chambering, and why? or, Don't cut down the "Casull" cases to .45LC length so that a heavier/hotter load can be used, and why? I am familiar with the pressures that the Casull cases and the .45LC cases were designed to work at ... and the fact that the rifle design can handle the Casull pressures under either of the circumstances. I am looking to put a little more "oomph" to the rifle, for expanded use as a "brush" hunting gun. I know what is required to do the re-chambering of this gun too. Just want some actual honest, sincere exchange from somebody's actual experience, or a suitable researched opinion dialogue.

Maybe this is not the "best" forum for this question, but "these" are MY people.

[cas]

The reason I mentioned that one is because there are people there who had done a lot of 454 experimenting on a number of levergun platforms. (IIRC, all of them failures with the exception of one totally custom/scratch built gun.)

[boz1911]

I always thought one of those guns would be cool in 454. My Super Redhawk is a boomer. If the "only" difference in the rifles is COL??, I would think it would be relatively easy to convert and still be reliable, hell I 've never owned a lever gun that wasn't.

[Adam B]

I dont think a lever action chambered in 45 LC could handle the pressure of a 454. I will check with my father, he is 454 nut and has owned one since they came out.

[cas]

If the "only" difference in the rifles is COL??, I would think it would be relatively easy to convert and still be reliable...

And IF it's not, you have a ticking bomb.

Actually I believe a number of the factory 454's are starting to show some bowing / stretching problems. Yet.. I know of someone with thousands of rounds through his, so who knows. Hit and miss?

I think the real question is "What do you have now?" Meaning what's your chamber like (size wise). You can run some pretty impressive loads through what you have.

Some years back I had a Trapper Winchester 94 (the weaker of the two actions between the 92 & 94) and even with the H-U-G-E chamber it had, I could run some super duper 300gr handloads though it. It wasn't really by choice, it was the only thing the gun would shoot semi accurately, but they were downright brutal in that little BB gun. Making yours a 454 might be too much of a good thing.

Edited May 24, 2009 by cas

[Radical Precision Designs]

I was actually trying to elicit a response from an actual owner of one of these LSI Puma factory chambered in the 454 Casull cartridge. As I mentioned, I held two of these rifles side by side in the respective chamberings, and I could not see or perceive any external or internal differences. I could be wrong ??!!

But while there is not that huge a difference between, let's say a .38 Special and a .357 Magnum, there is a big difference in pressures between the .45LC and the 454 Casull. But frankly I do not foresee a problem. The chambering in itself is relatively easy (once you get the barrel off) and not that much longer. The rifle done in the Casull version is intended to fire either interchangeably. In hind sight I should have bought ti rifle initially in the 454 Casull, but I didn't.

Yes, one can get some very impressive loads made in the 45LC as I have made for my TC Contender (G1). The LSI Puma sports a much stronger action than the TC Contender G1. The 45LC case was meant (in the original revolvers) for pressures in the 18,000 to 20,000 PSI. The TC Contender G1 can handle around 45,000 to 50,000PSI. The 454 Casull case was designed for pressures of 70,000PSI. 70,000 PSI pressures are indeed meant for rifle loads (and a few revolvers, of course) The LSI Puma IS one of these rifles as atested by their own offerings.

My real question was indeed intended for the possibility of trimming down the 454 Casull cases to 45LC and loading those hotter than I would recommend for the original .45 LC cases. That could save me some time and money, obviously, and I don't really need to make the hottest possible loads in the 454 Casull tables in these shortened cases ...

[mark dye]

I do a lot of large caliber revolver conversions for a living (at Bowen Classic Arms). I have also shot quite a few rounds through pistol-caliber lever guns. A lot of the "should I do this" question has to do with your goals. A .45 Colt loaded with 300+ grain bullets and H110 in a lever gun is a demon! You may want to play with some hot loaded .45's before deciding whether to convert your gun. In my experience, .454's are not as much of an improvement over hot loaded .45 Colts as everyone might think. If you are planning to rely on factory ammo, then you might have a legitimate reason to contemplate the conversion. However, I tend to lean toward the overly cautious side on this sort of conversion. I would personally limit a 92 style lever gun to loads at of 45000 psi or so. A 300 grain bullet at 1600 fps out of a lever gun is nothing to sneeze at!!!

Mark Dye

[Radical Precision Designs]

I do a lot of large caliber revolver conversions for a living (at Bowen Classic Arms). I have also shot quite a few rounds through pistol-caliber lever guns. A lot of the "should I do this" question has to do with your goals. A .45 Colt loaded with 300+ grain bullets and H110 in a lever gun is a demon! You may want to play with some hot loaded .45's before deciding whether to convert your gun. In my experience, .454's are not as much of an improvement over hot loaded .45 Colts as everyone might think. If you are planning to rely on factory ammo, then you might have a legitimate reason to contemplate the conversion. However, I tend to lean toward the overly cautious side on this sort of conversion. I would personally limit a 92 style lever gun to loads at of 45000 psi or so. A 300 grain bullet at 1600 fps out of a lever gun is nothing to sneeze at!!!

Mark Dye

Mark:

I think you got my point exactly. While LSI Puma does offer their '92 stainless in 454 Casull, validating their 70,000 PSI capability ... Well, I don't particularly like the pricing on new factory 454 Casull ammo. Nor do I really fancy doing the labor needed to do the reamer pushing thing, nor do I have a Casull reamer on hand. I do have some 454 Casull brass someone gave me and plenty of 45LC brass.

But, then if you can PM me with that recipe you mentioned for the 300 gr. bullet and the H110, I'll sure will owe you one. :cheers: Thanks.

Venry