4string Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I am shooting a Tanfoglio Stock II in production division and have found a load that is accurate and very soft in recoil. While I haven't chronoed it yet, I think it will be over the 125 power factor. I am loading a 180 grain fmj bullet with an OAL of 1.31 using 3.6 grains of Universal Clays. After reading a few forums, I now have a concern regarding low detonation. Here is what the Hodgson web-site lists for min and max loads. Cartridge: 40 S&W Load Type: Pistol Starting Loads -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Maximum Loads -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 180 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Universal .400" 1.125" 5.0 973 26,500 PSI 5.8 1046 33,400 PSI Should I have any reason to be worried? If so what would you recommend as the lowest to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I am loading a 180 grain fmj bullet with an OAL of 1.31 using 3.6 grains of Universal Clays. I am loading 180 Magma bullet over 2.9 grs of Clays and getting a PF of 135. Accuracy is good out of my G23 with a Storm Lake barrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 A 180gr bullet loaded to factory OAL in a .40 doesn't leave a whole lot of wasted case volume and it's not like you're trying to run 2gr or anything crazy light. Lots of folks have powder charges in the 3's without any problems at all. I wouldn't worry about it honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4string Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 Thanks guys. I sort of figured I was all right, but it's always better to ask when in doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgt40 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Any signs of detonation to watch for? I've never really seen this happen before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I've run regular Clays for 40 minor loads with great success. It was with light bullets, 135's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Manley Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Any signs of detonation to watch for? I've never really seen this happen before. I don't think you'll find anyone that's ever seen detonation in a pistol round...frankly, I'm skeptical that it even exists. Large, bottleneck rifle rounds, maybe but from what I've read, even there it's very difficult to reproduce under controlled conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgt40 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Any signs of detonation to watch for? I've never really seen this happen before. I don't think you'll find anyone that's ever seen detonation in a pistol round...frankly, I'm skeptical that it even exists. Large, bottleneck rifle rounds, maybe but from what I've read, even there it's very difficult to reproduce under controlled conditions. I've never heard of it either which is why I've asked. Yes again to the rifle, hence all of the filler products you can buy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2race Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I run 3.8 for a little extra oomf on steel. Same bullet weight, same powder, 1.125 OAL. I used to run 3.6 with 180 moly's though. Never had a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M109R Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 In my Glock 35 I run 2.6 Clays with the Magma 180 lead for 130 PF. Clays is so bulky with the bullet seated very little extra room in the case and is very soft and fairly accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 There is a great deal of confusion about Clays vs Universal Clays due to the name, but they are very different. You may be able to load a minor PF round with Universal, but a number of experts are dead against using it for major as it is, apparently, very subject to over-pressure problems at higher loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2race Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Odd. There's a lot of us using Universal Clays for Major. I'm going it with 5.0gr. Far from the max load listed in the manuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Any signs of detonation to watch for? I've never really seen this happen before. I don't think you'll find anyone that's ever seen detonation in a pistol round...frankly, I'm skeptical that it even exists. Large, bottleneck rifle rounds, maybe but from what I've read, even there it's very difficult to reproduce under controlled conditions. I've never heard of it either which is why I've asked. Yes again to the rifle, hence all of the filler products you can buy! If you search on .38 Special wadcutter loads you'll find tons of references to detonation. I've heard it called the "bullseye surprise". The debate has gone on for decades and likely will never stop. Guys loading something like 2.7gr of Bullseye under a 148gr wadcutter and the gun turns into shrapnel....cylinder fails, topstrap split in half etc. One side says they're double charges and then the other side counters that even a double charge wouldn't do that much damage...then they say it could have been a triple charge. You get the idea....it just goes back and forth. The detonation believers suggest that with a long case and a tiny charge the powder is all lying on the side of the case and the primer flash lights the powder all at once and this causes a detonation rather than a rapid burn. Everything I've read from the experts and powder companies says that they have never seen a documented case of detonation and they have never been able to reproduce it in their testing...to include large bottle neck rifle cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I've been looking back over past posts in various fora and it may be I mis-spoke. The problem may be with International Clays. There are several posts regarding the use of "Clays" in major and problems with over-pressure loads. In some cases, the discussion is clearly about Clays. In others, it's unclear if they are referring to Universal or International or just plain Clays. Very confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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