Rules questions

[cnote]

First regarding grips. The rules say something about same type and material, no weighted grips. I shoot a CZ SP-01 which I think is at or above weight for ESP with the factory grips. I normally use Aluminum grips on mine which are smaller in profile and lighter. The gun will make weight with these grips. They are definitely not weighted grips since they are ligther. Are these legal?

Just FYI, the CZ SP-O1 has to make SSP weight to shoot in ESP because it is illegal in ESP due to the full length dust cover. I only mention this because you specifically said ESP weight.

I have a friend that had the same problem, change out the factory grips to the alum and you should be ok. There is a whole thread on the cz shooters forum on how to make a sp-01 make weight do to the dust cover restriction.

[robertbank]

Page 8 states that all reloads must begin and end behind cover. Both the RWR and Tac-Reload call for stowing the old magazine. Therefore it seems clear you cannot leave cover in either instance until your magazine is properly stored.

Take Care

Bob

Edited November 20, 2008 by robertbank

[Gregg K]

If a reload must be completed behind cover, that means that it must also be stowed before advancing to the next position? It came up at a match. The ruling there was that it does not have to be stowed before leaving. It must be done before firing the next shot. I thought completed meant stowed also.

Mike

Mike

It does NOT have to be stowed before leaving, just before you fire the next shot. You are considered to be fully loaded when when the fresh magazine is FULLY-SEATED and the slide is closed or revolver cylinder is closed. The reload is then completed and you can leave cover. Just remember to stow before firing the first shot. Here are the relevant parts from the rulebook page 79 & 80

Reload: A method of recharging the gun. There are three (3) types of reloads allowed in IDPA. See “Reload, Slide Lock”, “Reload, Tactical (Tac-Load)” and “Reload with Retention” for further details. A shooter is deemed loaded and may move from a position of cover ONLY when the fresh magazine is FULLY-SEATED and the slide is closed or revolver cylinder is closed

Proper Magazine Retention: A place for a partially loaded magazine to be stowed before firing the first shot after a reload.These places include: pants pocket; vest pocket; jacket pocket; waistband; magazine pouch. The use of specially designed pockets, shirt pockets, upper vest pockets, hands or teeth is NOT permitted.

[kdmoore]

If a reload must be completed behind cover, that means that it must also be stowed before advancing to the next position? It came up at a match. The ruling there was that it does not have to be stowed before leaving. It must be done before firing the next shot. I thought completed meant stowed also.

Mike

you can break cover with the fresh mag seated and the slide forward. You can stow the mag on the move, and it's a tiny bit faster to go that route on the third string of the classifier (if you do the tac reload).

YMMV.

[Cherryriver]

Actually, I believe the rulebook contradicts itself a couple of times on the subject of cover and reloads.

Quoted above was one of the "must" passages, yet in the fifth paragraph of Appendix Three it says "must be executed from cover (if cover is available)..." The "if" contradicts the "must".

I'm not sure how course design that includes shooting on the move, and therefore, most likely in the open, could also include designing for the various capacities possible across the divisions. From five to eleven rounds in the gun are possible with a "full" gun, after all.

As someone who usually shoots IDPA with a sixgun, I've had many an old-timey match director with a 1911 in his holster do a forehead slap on this topic. Invariably, I've been instructed to just reload when empty, which fits in with the higher precedence of IDPA reloads being preferred from empty (slide lock).

It's just sort of a dark space in between the various concepts behind the rules as they made it on to paper.

Since IDPA is so heavily weighted towards getting the good hits, it's hard to penalize a competitor for continuing to fire to get good hits, even if it causes him/her to run out before the stage designer thought he/she would.

I would also add that a shooter knowing he or she was going to run dry while in the open would only apply if all available targets were visible in the open as well. Despite the previewing of the course as is customary, the spirit of IDPA would seem to dictate that the shooter doesn't know what's behind walls and therefore wouldn't be able to anticipate a reload should there turn out to be a threat back there.

That's an interpretation I share with a goodly number of other IDPAers in this neck of the woods.

Edited November 25, 2008 by Cherryriver