Vince Pinto Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Hi folks, Thankfully it's been very quiet here for the last week or so, because my colleagues and I have been going stir-crazy finalising the next draft set of rules, which will be considered at the General Assembly in August and, if adopted, will come into effect on 1 January 2004. In fact today, 30 June 2003, is the deadline for our work, we are on schedule, and I can assure you that the next set of rules will be the best damn set of rules you've ever seen, even if I say so myself. As soon as I'm able, I'll post a link where you can download a copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Hi Vince, Will it paste the differences between IPSC and USPSA ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Hello Vince! First, let me say "thanks" for what must be a tediuos and somewhat thankless job in drafting these rules for our mutual benefit. Now, if you do not mind, could you name the top 5 rule changes likely to affect the average shooter? How about the top 5 most controversial rule changes? Curious about the big changes (if any). Regards, D.C. Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 carlos, you can look at the rules changes at: http://www.uspsa.org/members/rc/IPSC_Rules...h_May_2003.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted July 1, 2003 Author Share Posted July 1, 2003 Lynn, The rules on the USPSA version are the "first first first" draft from the Jurassic Period. We've come a long way since that version was published. A long, long way. Julien, Differences between the IPSC and USPSA rulebook? Just about every single rule (!!), so it would be like comparing an apple with a banana. Having said that, John Amidon and Mike Voigt have been actively involved with the development work every step of the way (with Bruce Gary, Arnie Christianson and Troy McManus before them). Of course there are items which didn't go "the USPSA way", but I believe that Mike and John are very happy with the vast majority of rules, and 100% with the important ones, so we all expect USPSA to adopt them, with the only variations being the Divisions (i.e. USPSA will retain what currently exists). Carlos, Thank you, kind Sir. Want some trivia? On my computer I have +5,200 emails on this rules session, generated from 1 October to 30 June, and I estimate I've personally spent +2,000 hours so far on the rules, in addition to flying to Orlando in February for 5 days of 8 hour meetings. Anybody know where I can get a life? Top 5 changes? Wow, now that's a tough question, but let me try, in no particular order: 1) We now have a Glossary of definitions, and we also defined "Single Action", "Double Action" and "Selective Action". 2) We now deal with handling guns in Vendor Areas (don't worry - it's fair and friendly) 3) We totally restructured Section 10 (Penalties) so that it's much clearer. 4) We totally restructured Section 5 (Competitor Equipment). 5) We totally restructured Section 9 (Scoring) so that even a novice can get the hang of things. Having said all that, we went through page by page, chapter by chapter and line by line, and we shuffled stuff around so that everything is more logical. So, even if Rule 9.9.9 is now Rule 2.2.2, you won't have a hard time finding it. Whew. Anyway, as soon as I can, I'll post a link and you guys can be the judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Well, I like bananas and apples, so no big deal In fact I meant mainly about the divisions criterias differences (PF, mag length etc...). Will it be available on the IPSC website too ? Thanks a lot for the huge work you all provided ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted July 1, 2003 Author Share Posted July 1, 2003 Julien, Yes, there were a few minor changes to the Divisions, and I don't think I'll get shot for announcing them here & now: Open: We added a line which is not new - it merely states the accepted practice (for IPSC & USPSA): Added: 16. Ammunition which fails to meet the minimum bullet weight above, but which chronographs at Major power factor, will be treated as unsafe and must be withdrawn (see Rule 5.5.6). Standard: We clarified an important point: Added: 18. Only porting of barrels is prohibited. Slides may be ported. Modified: Point 18 was a restriction against general policy and has been removed. Deleted: 18. A handgun which satisfies all the requirements of either Standard or Production Division shall not be entered or used in Modified Division in a competition where Standard or Production Division are recognised. Standard & Modified & Production: The holster position rules have new language and two diagrams are being added to replace the current medical terms (i.e. no more "anterior superior spinia illiaca" for all, or "tuberacity of the femur" for ladies). 17. Neither the handgun, nor any of it's attachments, nor any allied equipment (e.g. magazines or other loading devices), can extend forward of the line illustrated in Appendix F3. Any such items a Range Officer deems not to be in compliance must be safely and promptly adjusted, failing which Rule 6.2.6.1 will apply. And that's basically it. Of course these will not become rules unless and until they are adopted by the General Assembly in Italy in August 2003, in which case they will come into effect on 1 January 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Thanks Vince. Can't wait to see the entire rules ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 thanks for all the hard work vince, john, mike, arnie, troy and bruce. lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Standard & Modified & Production: The holster position rules have new language and two diagrams are being added to replace the current medical terms (i.e. no more "anterior superior spinia illiaca" for all, or "tuberacity of the femur" for ladies). Skywalkers diagram? Thanks a lot Vince, appreciate all the efforts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Well, er..., actually I would prefer Pam's one instead my drawings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 I didn't know Limcat made a holster for DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted July 3, 2003 Author Share Posted July 3, 2003 Hi guys, As much as I truly appreciate Skywalker's assistance in creating his diagram, we'll need a better diagram in the rulebook. We also need a second diagram to illustrate the positioning of female belts worn at hip level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GvU Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Vince, You must have had a lot of work after getting the comments to the 13th of may version (3 in 1). Especially minimum distances were very confusing between pistol, shotgun and rifle. Will there be 3 rule books or 1 covering all (I would prefer that as it makes RO life much easier). John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 We also need a second diagram to illustrate the positioning of female belts worn at hip level. Vince, maybe this is the diagram you are looking for? Moreover, if you ever need to visually explain "safe gun handling", show this picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted July 4, 2003 Author Share Posted July 4, 2003 GvU, The so-called "3 in 1" document is nothing more than a working copy to illustrate how we've aligned the Shotgun and Rifle rules as closely as possible with the Handgun rules. However once our work is finished, that document will no longer exist. We will have three separate "discipline" rulebooks (HG, SG, Rifle) plus a Tournment (2 gun, 3 gun) rulebook. When you run a Handgun match, you only need the Handgun Rulebook, and so on for the others. Even if you run a Tournament (2 or more independant matches), each component match uses a dedicated rulebook, but you use the (3 page!) Tournament Rulebook for scoring and other general guidelines. There is no such thing in IPSC as a "Multi-Gun" match, where you might shoot a Handgun and a Shotgun on Stage 1, or where you would shoot a Handgun on Stage 1 and a Shotgun on Stage 2. However if such matches ever came to pass, then we'd probably need a 5th rulebook, but I doubt there's sufficient worldwide support for "Multi-Gun" matches. Luca, Please be careful posting such images. I'm not getting any younger, and they're definitely not good for my heart As one of my friends says: "I wanna be the Womb Raider for the Tomb Raider" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GvU Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Vince, I wasn't suggesting multi-gun matches. I said it would make RO-life much simpler. Meaning, it makes the diferences much easier to spot. I know the 3 and 1 was only there to compare the rules. I still like the idea of one single rulebook very much. (Trying to persuade you, hope you don't mind.) John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Vince, just tryin' to be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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