Loading 223 On 1050 First Time

[apriav]

First time loading 223s on my 1050. I am getting + or - .005 OAL on bunches of 10 shells loaded. Is that a problem and how do I fix it? I tried lowering the dies so they hit the shell plate thinking that it was moving, no change. Any help out there?

[Smokey]

Are you using hollowpoint bullets? When I load my Sierra 69g Match bullets and then just measure the OAL straight up they tend to have a .005 variance. You can buy a "bullet comparator" http://www.stoneypoint.com/comparator_index.html from Sinclair or Midway that clamps onto your calipers that will measure off of the bullet ogive (read : curve). Of course it won't read the same as the total OAL in the books since it is referenced off the curve of the bullet but it is a good tool to check how much variance there is between loaded rounds.

-Shawn

Edited July 14, 2006 by Smokey

[D.Hayden]

Arnold.. which seating die are you using?

Are you adjusting the die with cases in each position (hopefully with the primer tube empty)?

I'm using the same bullets and I just looked at some rounds (not nesesarily loaded the same time) - they tend to be +/- /.003 or so.

I don't notice they shoot any differently - I'd be surprised if it would matter much - maybe I'm naive?

[George]

+- .005" is not really a big deal with typical 55gr FMJ (consistent bullet tip) and in fact is pretty darned tight for average grade ball ammo. It's a bit less than the tip to case head measurement variances you will get on some match hollow points.

If you are using a HP bullet like the SMK 69, you can't really measure off the tips as they are not uniform by design/circumstance. You need a comparator that measures off the ogive to measure OAL reliably on HP's. You can get one at Sinclair International.

I see +- .006 to .007 variances when I load with SMK 69 and 77's and measure to the tips across a batch. Typical range for me using this type of measurement is 2.235" to 2.250". If they average out to 2.240 sumthin' I am happy ;-) Comparator typically shows less than .002 +- variance compared to the wide tip measurement variances.

BTW. not properly beveling the inside case mouth can cause erratic seating and increased OAL variances. A compressed charge can also be the culprit and a crimp may be needed to stop creep-out.

[D.Hayden]

I'm pretty sure these are Winchester 55 FMJBT cheapies..

[apriav]

I'm pretty sure these are Winchester 55 FMJBT cheapies..

I am using Dillon dies and Winchester FMJBT 55 gr.

I measured some factory reloads and they are all the same length to the .001.

New to 223 loading- learning.

Thanks guys

[George]

If you are trimming on the 1050, the Dillon trimmer leaves a very square case mouth and this can make bullet seating very inconsistent. The seating die may also be contacting the bullet shape poorly/unevenly and you may need a different profile on the seating stem if that is the case. Look at the loaded rounds to see if there is any marking from the seating punch. This may help see if the punch is pushing square/evenly.

It is also possible the bullets have a slight variance in their shape but their length is exact. If the seating punch is pushing on the sides of the bullet and that point has any variance in shape, well you get the picture ;-)

[D.Hayden]

George.. this was 100% Scharch brass...

Ok.. so say they are off... does it matter?

Is this going to affect accuracy?

Edited July 15, 2006 by BerKim

[George]

Dave, what do you mean by "Off" referring to the brass from Scharch. My points above were directed to the bullets shape possibly having variance in the area contacting the seating stem/punch.

As far as Scharch 100% processed goes, I always have to inside ream for seating taper and outside debur to remove the lip that will effect crimp. IME, all Scharch 100% .223 brass has a straight trim cut across the case mouth and no chamfer inside or out. There is almost always a lip on the outside that protrudes a couple thousandths and if you don't remove this, I find that it causes variances in the amount of crimp applied and opens up the SD at the chrono because of release tension variances introduced here.

The inside of the Scharch case mouths is a sharp right angle and even though it doesn't exhibit any roughness (like the Dillon trimmer does IMO), it does leave a sharp edge that shaves copper on any bullet I have tried, even boat tails. I wind up sorting all my Scharch by hand to find any that don't gauge in a JP ammo gauge upfront and then to use a deburrer and a chamfer tool chucked up in a cordless drill on each and every one that passes the gauge.

I process 1-2k at a time this way. Only the stuff that passes a JP ammo gauge is used for match grade ammo (SMK 69 & 77), the rest gets run through a 550 toolhead with a size die in position and used for junk ball even if the case mouths shave a little copper from the bulk Hornady 55's I use for ball.

The stuff that passes the JP gauge and has been reamed/deburred then gets weighed and once a curve is established, anything at the far ends of that weight curve is tossed back in with the junk ball lot. This gives me a typical core lot left of about 6-7 hundred per 1000 from each Scharch batch I have processed (they were down to under 50% of a batch of 1000 passing the JP gauge a few times back in 04). I end up with nice cases that give me a high level of accuracy due to the weight sorting. For the SMK 77 loading, I go ahead and primer pocket and flash hole prep too using tools on a cordless drill.

The Scharch 100% is only about 60% ready to go in my opinion, but that's a lot closer to done than cleaned 1x range pick ;-)

BTW, I find the 100% processed is about 99% LC headstamp and usually all one lot. I buy 3-4 k at a time and like it being one batch stuff :-)

[D.Hayden]

Sorry.. that wasn't too clear.. I meant, if the OAL is off (too much variance).. would that matter?

I went back and added the Scharch, just to give you the reference to the brass he's using.. and it kind of mucked it up..

I used to use Scharch right out of the bag.. it still shoots better then I do (lol - you've seen me shoot).

[George]

I like tight tolerances, but I do feel that a few thousandths variance in OAL is a lot less important than release tension variances from a wandering crimp and case weight/volume variances that most folks don't even know about ;-)

I am a bit weird when it comes to case prep, but I do know what matters and what doesn't and what's easy to do and what's not ;-)