HOGRIDER Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) While replacing (warranty) the Primer Housing on my Apex 10, I decided to go ahead and hit all the lubrication points on the press. Used the mini pistol grease gun with a needle nozzle; then decided to use a large syringe (as recommended) to do the Center Pin on the Crank Assembly and the Main Shaft Bearings in the Press Core. Don't know if I was experiencing hydraulic lock or the syringe just didn't create enough pressure; but I could not get grease to "ooze" out from the bearings/surfaces! Took a paper clip, fashioned a straight piece with a small bend/hook on the end, and verified the lube channels were not blocked for whatever reason. Finally decided to go out and pick up a "Seal-Off Grease Coupler. After installing on my mini gun, a few pumps and VOILA! Grease is oozing out around the bearings of all 3 areas! https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/workforce-seal-off-coupler-with-rubber-tip LockNLube also has an offering: https://www.amazon.com/LockNLube-LNL127-Seal-Off-Grease-Adapter/dp/B07VVN761G/ref=asc_df_B07VVN761G/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=416671577205&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4813484994468330650&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009223&hvtargid=pla-898010876593&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=96944448914&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=416671577205&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4813484994468330650&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009223&hvtargid=pla-898010876593 After using one of the seal-off couplers, I can't see me using a plastic syringe ever! HTHs! Edited June 15, 2023 by HOGRIDER sp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiknSwans Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 I tried a similar attachment for my full size grease gun, and it leaked grease between the rubber and metal without developing much pressure at all. LINK. The fitting shape inside the rubber was not conical, but just cylindrical, so applying pressure to the lubrication point had no sealing effect at all. The fitting that worked perfectly was this one. LINK A syringe didn't work for me either. I would still like to find the fitting that Mark 7 used in their maintenance video. LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 Is there room for a regular grease zerk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted June 15, 2023 Author Share Posted June 15, 2023 41 minutes ago, BiknSwans said: I tried a similar attachment for my full size grease gun, and it leaked grease between the rubber and metal without developing much pressure at all. LINK. The fitting shape inside the rubber was not conical, but just cylindrical, so applying pressure to the lubrication point had no sealing effect at all. The fitting that worked perfectly was this one. LINK A syringe didn't work for me either. I would still like to find the fitting that Mark 7 used in their maintenance video. LINK I had the same experience at first the the rubber wanting to leak/come off the coupler. For me, not applying so much pressure on the rubber tip worked perfectly. Now that I've seen your second, metal needle tip adapter, I can see how that would definitely be able to handle more insertion pressure. This was the Needle Nozzle I ended up using on the mini grease gun, and it actually comes with a nice rubber sleeve covering the tip. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002SR6XE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Works perfectly for pinpoint dispensing of grease around the wave spring, shell plate and nut, swage con rod, primer punch rocker, index track roller, etc..... Thanks for sharing your experiences! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted June 15, 2023 Author Share Posted June 15, 2023 51 minutes ago, Farmer said: Is there room for a regular grease zerk? I first thought why didn't they include threading the grease channels and putting in a zerk! But once I took a hard look, the only place a zerk would have the room to exist (on the mainshaft) would be on the left side. Right end is flush within the handle; or fits flush with the drive sprocket on the automation unit. There's also room on the end of the Center Pin in the Crank Assembly.......... Off the top of my head, I'm thinking machining for zerks may have added some manufacturing costs; and Mark 7 didn't think it was viable. Along with the 10k round maintenance schedule not requiring frequent servicing. Good point that I'm sure M7 discussed; but it appears they use the same (non-zerk) procedure on the Revo, Evo, and Apex 10. Not sure on the Genesys......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiknSwans Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 Thank you HogRider. I never would have thought that less pressure on the rubber would help, but now I know. I like your choice of adaptor for using a needle nozzle on the wave spring, etc. I had one like that and returned it. I'm sure it works better than the turkey injector syringe I'm using.I was only considering my issues lubing the Center Pin on the Crank Assembly and the Main Shaft Bearings in the Press Core, and didn't consider using it elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiknSwans Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Farmer said: Is there room for a regular grease zerk? There is only one regular grease zerk, and it's used for lubing the swager. There is plenty of room for a regular zerk. Lubing the left and right Main Bearing and the crank is different in that there is no fitting, just a hole. You just need to fill up the hole with a conical fitting attached to the grease gun (or syringe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 I was just wondering if it would be possible. That idea of trying to push grease through a syringe is like trying to blow a golf ball through a garden hose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 11 minutes ago, Farmer said: That idea of trying to push grease through a syringe is like trying to blow a golf ball through a garden hose. LOL! You got that right! I kept trying to get grease into all three ports, and ended up breaking off the entire tip/nose of the syringe applying too much pressure! In a UR video, John Vlieger mentioned they used sealed bearings; so I'm still scratching my head about how a syringe could force thick grease into a bearing with enough force to squeeze out some of the old grease............ Just glad I figured out a more effective method! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, HOGRIDER said: LOL! You got that right! I kept trying to get grease into all three ports, and ended up breaking off the entire tip/nose of the syringe applying too much pressure! In a UR video, John Vlieger mentioned they used sealed bearings; so I'm still scratching my head about how a syringe could force thick grease into a bearing with enough force to squeeze out some of the old grease............ Just glad I figured out a more effective method! Makes me wonder if they are just a shielded and not totally sealed bearing. You can push grease into shielded bearing. Pushing it into a sealed bearing is possible too but you’d crap yourself doing it with a syringe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 FWIW, this is my current mini grease gun with the tip I referenced above: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P67WLZP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 And these are just plain convenient: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08YJ3J221/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s03?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Have to say the mini gun has worked perfectly with zero issues! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, Farmer said: Makes me wonder if they are just a shielded and not totally sealed bearing. You can push grease into shielded bearing. Pushing it into a sealed bearing is possible too but you’d crap yourself doing it with a syringe. I think your right.......grease came out of the bearings easier than I expected once I used the right tip on the gun.... If the depiction in the parts file is correct, it appears they are using needle roller bearings at all three locations. They don't list them separately; but still could be available through tech support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 9 minutes ago, HOGRIDER said: I think your right.......grease came out of the bearings easier than I expected once I used the right tip on the gun.... If the depiction in the parts file is correct, it appears they are using needle roller bearings at all three locations. They don't list them separately; but still could be available through tech support. Some of those have a small seal at the openings thats about the thickness of a matchbook. It’s easily deflected and that may be what they are using. I can’t imagine them needing all that much grease when you compare the speed and temperature at what your press runs, to the rear needle bearing on an alternator. If you’re running that at 4000 rpm I’m impressed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 5 hours ago, BiknSwans said: A syringe didn't work for me either. I would still like to find the fitting that Mark 7 used in their maintenance video. LINK @BiknSwans: I went back and watched Tom's video you linked above to see just what kind of fitting he was using. If you look closely on his work bench, he's using an older version of the UTool Grease Gun similar to the one here: https://www.amazon.com/UTOOL-Working-Coupler-Extension-Included/dp/B07KSZPB49?th=1 Notice in the listing it includes a Sharp Type Nozzle! Stopping the video at the 3:16 mark gives a birds eye view of his nozzle; which he's using on the main shaft and swage con rod zerk! https://youtu.be/Aq4Wise8kVk?t=196 Looks like the Sharp Type Nozzle is also available separately...... https://www.amazon.com/Utoolmart-Coupling-Grease-Nickel-Diameter/dp/B07ZT5DGH3/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1DFRL7GOKVFNZ&keywords=Sharp+Type+grease+gun+Nozzle&qid=1686881716&sprefix=sharp+type+grease+gun+nozzle%2Caps%2C77&sr=8-3 Buying 6 is a bit too many; so I'm going to see if I can find the same brand is a smaller quantity. HTHs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiknSwans Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Thanks. I had studied the video, but just couldn't duplicate exactly what he used. The sharp type nozzles you found on Amazon look like what I'm using, except mine attaches with a Zerk nipple rather than threads. I have a full size grease gun, and enough grease to last several lifetimes, but I can't find the rigid pipe that came with the gun. I only have the flexible hose. That works fine with the fitting I used, but using the straight rod might be easier. I haven't been able to find a replacement rigid pipe online. By the way, Mk7 recommended this fitting, but the diameter was too small, smaller than the inside diameter of the main shaft grease access. I let Mk7 know, and they won't be recommending that fitting again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, BiknSwans said: Thanks. I had studied the video, but just couldn't duplicate exactly what he used. The sharp type nozzles you found on Amazon look like what I'm using, except mine attaches with a Zerk nipple rather than threads. I have a full size grease gun, and enough grease to last several lifetimes, but I can't find the rigid pipe that came with the gun. I only have the flexible hose. That works fine with the fitting I used, but using the straight rod might be easier. I haven't been able to find a replacement rigid pipe online. By the way, Mk7 recommended this fitting, but the diameter was too small, smaller than the inside diameter of the main shaft grease access. I let Mk7 know, and they won't be recommending that fitting again. I went ahead a purchased this rigid extension to use on my full size grease gun or the mini grease gun. Worked perfectly! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01NA6TYZH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s01?ie=UTF8&th=1 I had also purchased a small nozzle type fitting like the one M7 recommended to you; and also found it was smaller than the grease channels on both the mainshaft and the center pin: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002SR6XE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1 BTW: I have shared all this info in an email to Jason Olson at M7 Tech Support. He's discussing a "recommended" tool kit that could be offered on their site.......... Edited June 16, 2023 by HOGRIDER sp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 Tom Carlson confirming he was using the UTool Sharp Type Nozzle: Quote yes I use the hard point tip and had to grind slightly to get a sharper point that allows it to both be used on the crank / main shaft as well as the zerk fitting. I'm guessing the Nozzle's 2mm/0.080" tip must be a bit too large to fit a standard Zerk....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiknSwans Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 8:48 AM, HOGRIDER said: BTW: I have shared all this info in an email to Jason Olson at M7 Tech Support. He's discussing a "recommended" tool kit that could be offered on their site.......... I think I'll be waiting for Mk7's recommended toolkit. The rigid extension you're using would fit onto my grease gun, but I still can't find a tip with a female thread, other than the pack of 6 you found. Anything to do with plumbing has always been a challenge for me, and I appreciate your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 1 hour ago, BiknSwans said: I think I'll be waiting for Mk7's recommended toolkit. The rigid extension you're using would fit onto my grease gun, but I still can't find a tip with a female thread, other than the pack of 6 you found. Anything to do with plumbing has always been a challenge for me, and I appreciate your help. It’s 1/8 pipe thread. Any decent hardware store should have it or any auto parts store should have both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted June 18, 2023 Author Share Posted June 18, 2023 7 hours ago, BiknSwans said: I think I'll be waiting for Mk7's recommended toolkit. The rigid extension you're using would fit onto my grease gun, but I still can't find a tip with a female thread, other than the pack of 6 you found. Anything to do with plumbing has always been a challenge for me, and I appreciate your help. @BiknSwansI understand your position on "plumbing" but it's not that difficult in this situation. In your first post in this thread you mentioned you had a "LockNLube Seal-Off Grease Adapter". If you remove the grease plug (zerk) from the input end, it will screw right onto a rigid extension. Or you could stop into a Tractor Supply or local hardware/automotive store and purchase another one like I referenced in my OP. IMO, and since Tom had to modify the UTool Sharp Type Nozzle to fit a zerk, I would recommend using your regular grease gun for the swage con rod zerk then swap out a rubber tipped adapter to do the mainshaft bearings and crank assembly center pin like your LockNLube Seal-Off Grease Adapter. I'm just not sure at this point how soon a "recommended tool kit" will become available...... HTHs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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