Stock guide rods and aftermarket recoil springs.....

[bullseyekp]

This is for Matt K. and all of you other Glock tinker-freaks (a compliment, not an insult).  I have a new stock G34 that I am using in IDPA SSP and USPSA Production.  Current mods are limited to some of Dale's trigger enhancements, Heinie rear sight and DP optic front sight.

Here is the dilemna.  I want to find the right load and spring combination.  I might purchase a tungsten guide rod in the future, but for these purposes, lets ignore that possibility.  

Has anyone trimmed the ring at the end of the stock guide rod that captures the spring?  Wouldn't this allow you to use the stock rod with aftermarket springs (ie - different weights)?  I can't see any reason this won't work but before I start trimming plastic, I would like to know if it will be a waste of time?

As a follow on, what is your preference on springs, ISMI or Wolff?  It seems that Wolff, being round wire (I think), would not contact the rod as much as the ISMI (like the stock spring).  Any thoughts?

Thanks.

(Edited by bullseyekp at 2:06 pm on Feb. 4, 2003)

[EricW]

I think you can just pop out the captivating plug with a piece of stiff wire and a hammer - no cutting required.  (Tip probably stolen from Matt K.)  Worst case, it's a six dollar problem.  Ahh, the beauty of the Glock....  

FWIW, I buy multiple recoil springs (to get a price break) for my Glocks when I find a good armorer.  You need to replace them periodically anyway - so then you're your own source of spare parts.

[bullseyekp]

Eric, two things might complicate that situation.  One, I inserted one of those metal guide rod inserts to see if it would change anything (someone said it would reduce recoil?) and if I removed the cap, I imagine that insert would be succeptable to flying out.  Not that I can't live without it, but.  Secondly, and I haven't looked at the part in enough detail to substantiate this, but wouldn't removing the cap shorten the rod overall by about 1/8 of an inch?  Would this make it short enough that it wouldn't engage the hole in the slide and might jam into the slide?

(Edited by bullseyekp at 2:22 pm on Feb. 4, 2003)

[EricW]

"Metal Guide Rod Insert"

What the heck is that?  Are we talking about putting a small piece of wire inside the stock, plastic guide rod?  I need some edumacation on that one.

I think the cap snaps into the *inside* of the guide rod.  If you're careful, you can probably snap it back together after you've changed springs.  I'm pretty sure you can run without the cap as well.  If you've already put a piece of metal inside your guide rod (if what you're saying is what I think you're saying), you can just use a small punch and drive the whole mess out cap/retainer and all.  

Otherwise, failing that, you might just want to order a couple of new ones from Matt K. and call it a lesson learned.  A non-captive stainless guide rod is all of $20, I think, and will be very helpful in swapping out springs.

[if you're saying what I think you're saying mode ON]

By the way, I mean this in the most respectful way, but F=MA is an equation that we really need to keep in mind when talking about recoil reduction.  If we're adding weight to accomplish that, it needs to be a substantial portion of the gun's mass to have any effect on recoil.  A tiny piece of metal is going to have *zero* effect on recoil - even on a Glock.  The 34 weighs 23 oz dry.  A 2 oz. tungsten rod will add about 8.5% to the mass of the gun and one could expect a proportionate reduction in recoil.  (Really less than 8.5% b/c the gun will have rounds in the mag already adding to the mass.)

[bullseyekp]

I will check out the assembly when I get home to see if I can snap off the endpiece and run it stock with different springs.

I understand the physics involved with mass and recoil but the reduction in "felt" recoil was supposed to be achieved by a reduction in the flexing motion of the stock recoil guide rod (the insert stiffening it up).  By the way, the insert is just a little piece of steel that fits in the guide rod.  Like I said, I thought it was a long shot but I figured I would try it for $5.

Any thoughts on whose recoil springs to use?

[TRG65]

bullseye,

Yes, you can "pop" out the end.   In my opinion, this is very difficult.  The solution I arrived at was to buy an extra "stock" recoil assembly and dremel off the edges of the cap so the spring can come free.  Now you have a non-captive guide rod of the same length as the original, also since the "cap" is still plugging the guide rod you don't have to worry about your metal insert coming out.  

By the way where did you get the insert.  Until I started playing with this non-captive plastic guide rod, I never realized how much the stock guide rod flexes when the slide is back.  I'm disturbed by it and would like to give it a little support.  I would perfer a Ti insert as they weigh less and should be strong enough for the purpose.

[EricW]

I've shot a whole lot of ammo through my Glocks using the stock spring/rod assembly with zero problems.  So have a lot of other folks.  It's unclear what problem that little piece of metal is supposed to fix considering Glock's impeccable track record as a stock pistol.  The plastic guide rod is there just to keep the coils of the spring aligned.  It serves no other purpose.  Instead of spending $5 on a piece of music wire, why not spend $6 on a spare guide rod/spring?  You'll need sooner or later anyway - when your current one gets soft.

[bullseyekp]

HTR, Scherer makes the insert and I found it on Ebay.  Just search for "glock guide rod" and you will find it.

Eric, I'm not saying that I am positive the insert would eliminate the flex, or that the flex is an inherent problem at all.  I'm just playing around to learn, nothing more, nothing less.  Do you run the stock setup all the time or have you tried using different springs, even with an aftermarket rod?  If so, were they ISMI or Wolff?

[EricW]

bullseye,

I've settled on ISMI springs and a captive tungsten rod from Glockmeister.  But, I'm pretty ambivalent about it.  The stock rod was fine too.  The tungsten rod is just one of those experiments that worked and I stuck with it.  I'm very happy with how the front sight is returning right now, so I'm not in the mood to screw with anything.

I'm just not sure why anyone would care if the plastic guide rod flexed or not.  If it works, it works.  And it only costs six bucks to fix if it stops working - which I've never heard of happening.

[Custom Glock Racing]

For IDPA I remove the end cap of a stock rod and use my springs of choice (for SSP 34 ISMI 13 minus 3-6 coils).

I only use ISMI recoil in my personal guns

Remember for IDPA no tungsten allowed and SSP requires plastic rod to be used.

[TRG65]

Last week my shooting partner and I removed the end cap from the recoil guide rod in his 35.  The gun had worked fine previously never needed to lube, clean or do anything except shoot.  Frankly, when we were working on his gun I was appalled, but it worked.  

After we took the cap off the gun wouldn't extract the first round on a 10+1 situation, but only with 3 out of 4 mags.  The problem went away when he lubed the gun.  This hasn't happened to me on the 3 of my personal guns that I've done, but 3 is a small sample.  Does the spring get stronger when it is released?  That is what seems to have happened in this case.

[EricW]

The spring is probably just catching on the front edge of the guide rod.  You could try chamfering the rod, or just snap the plug back in.  Or, spend $20 and get a metal guide rod to tinker around with.