38 Supercomp Aftec

[Shadow]

I have two open guns with STI 38 Super slides (super breech face) set up for supercomp with Nowlin extractors. I was going to replace the extractors with 38 supercomp AFTECs. I ordered two from Brownells, but neither has enough tension for supercomp in either slide (slight tension, but nothing like the AFTECs in my .40s or another gun set up for Super). They are definitely the supercomp extractors (not the super).

I tried one, but get an empty case laying on top of the magazine jamming the gun about one ot of 20-30 rounds.

Any suggestions from the experts on how to get more tension? Is this common? A buddy's gun with a caspian slide (with a lightening cut that exposes the extractor) has an addition cut in the extractor hole that appears to have been cut by running a ~3/16 end mill through the hole to cut a semi-circular groove on the inside of the extractor hole. It appears this groove gives the extractor enough relief to apply more tension to the case. TIA.

Jim

[Bigbadaboom]

I put Aftecs in all my 1911 types. Some you have to have "Adjusted" and some you don't because all slide extractor holes are not drilled exactly the same. Once they are you never have to worry about extraction again.

[Shadow]

Thanks for the reply. How they are adjusted is exactly what I'm looking for, if one of the professional gunsmith types here is willing to share.

[short_round]

I'm no professional gunsmith, but if I had your problem I would try one of or all three things:

1. get new springs (but since it sounds like your whole aftec is new ...)

2. shim the holes to give more spring tension

3. find a good place to bend extractor between the hook and where the spring assembly start.

good luck ...

[Bigbadaboom]

Thanks for the reply. How they are adjusted is exactly what I'm looking for, if one of the professional gunsmith types here is willing to share.

All I know is that my Gunsmith called the maker and wound up with a piece of tube steel to slide around it while securely stationed in a vise. Something about being very careful due to the tool steel being harder and more brittle than regular extractors.

[Shadow]

Thanks guys.

SR:

I own a bunch of AFTECs and have a LOT of extra springs. I tried them all but couldn't find a combination that worked.

I thought about shimming, but couldn't think of anything easy to shim with.

Bending would probably work, but its tempered pretty stiff. I was waiting to see if anyone who knows they can be bent and how would reply. I have one of Brownells extractor adjusting tools that would probably bend it if it didn't break. Bigbadaboom's answer is probably the clue.

Bigbadaboom:

That's probably what I need. I called the number on the instruction sheet several times, but only got a generic answering machine and no call back. I thought they were blowing me off, but I probably need to keep trying. May be they weren't around for a couple of days and/or their answering machine was malfunctioning.

[Radical Precision Designs]

You didn't hear this from me! Promise?????

I have a "friend" that on ocassion puts the Aftecs into a vise, and with a sharp file removes some metal up to the point before the "hook, then slightly deepens the hook and angles it a little bit at the bottom. This usually may allow the hook to bite a little bit deeper into the rim and allow the round to move up into it easier. And, yes nothing stays behind during extraction. Yes my "friend" knows this may void the factory warranty.

Of course one thing that helps a lot is to periodically clean those two springs (and replace them as needed), and make sure there is an adequate "arc" at the firing pin stop.

[Shadow]

RPD-

Thanks for the reply. Here what from who?

I've chocked up a lot of R&D expense over the years to advance my learning curve, so warranties aren't really a concern. But, a "friend" of mine also had an older supercomp AFTEC that he kept when he sold an earlier gun and he tried filing on the inside (not in the hook area where the case rides, but just before) to let the claw get closer to the rim for more tension. While there was very slightly more tension, it still wasn't what it should be. Unless "he" didn't file enough, this didn't work and my "friend" is still looking for another solution for his new extractors. He would try it on the old extractor first.

There's plenty of space between the case rim and the cut in the extractor (the new instructions, as opposed to the ones that came with the older extractors say that the case rim won't touch the extractor) there just isn't enough tension of the claw on the case.

The firing pin stop allows movement, and I tried swapping out stops from the other guns with AFTECs just to make sure. This is the first time I've had an AFTEC that didn't drop in and work or else have too much tension.

Bending (with some kind of support, as mentioned by Bigbadaboom) would seem to be the answer, but I wonder where the fulcrum point shoud be?

Edited November 27, 2005 by Shadow

[rishii]

before you bend the expensive part, try working on the cheapest part first.

take the springs, grap a dial caliper, put the spring in sideways the front part of the jaws where its thin, and have the jaws closed inbetween one of the coils, and squeeze shut. the spring should then have a gap in the coils, and raise the cap higher, and have more tension on the hook.

[XRe]

Before you guys get carried away, why don't you simply call AFTEC?? Rusty and Pat are great great great guys. They *will* help you out, and help you figure out how to get their product to work in your gun.

My understanding of the material the extractor is made out of (at least, the original ones - it's been six or so years since I've spoken w/ Rusty about it) is that the extractor shouldn't take a permanent bend without highly overstressing the material. That's the whole point - it can't ever "unadjust" itself like a regular extractor. He told me it was much more likely to *break* than take a permanent bend. Maybe that's changed, but.... I don't know what Bigbadaboom's smithy did That's a new one on me...

That said, a "friend" of mine didn't let the warranty bug him when he polished the underside of the extractor and gently radiused the area the rim makes contact with when he installed his AFTEC (it was, after all, the same thing Rusty'd done when he built a racegun for him 7 years ago). But, that's as far as my "friend" would take it without calling AFTEC up and finding out what they think should be done....

[Shadow]

Thanks guys for the continued responses.

XRe:

I've tried calling and leaving a message on the ansering machine (16-18 Nov) with no luck. I'll keep trying for awhile before I mess with the new extractors. I've still got the old one to play with. I had polished it and rounded the claw corner for the old gun in which it worked perfectly. It had weak tension in the new guns and I thought maybe the polishing had reduced it enough to make it weak in the new guns (and had voided the warranty) so I ordered new ones. However, they're also weak. I have already tried RPD's suggestion on the old one, so its a prime candidate for continued experimentation.

rishii:

I'll try it, but I don't know how long the springs would last like that if it works.

[short_round]

Before you guys get carried away, why don't you simply call AFTEC??

That's no fun. That would be like reading the manual or stopping to ask for directions.

[XRe]

I've tried calling and leaving a message on the ansering machine (16-18 Nov) with no luck.

You might also try Rusty directly at David's Gun Room - 770-447-6021. I don't know if it's technically cool to call him there re: AFTEC issues, or not, but I'm sure he'd be happy to help you, either way. He's a heck of a gunsmith, BTW.

shortround, I like to tinker, too Extractor tension, and things involving the extractor tunnel dimensions are a little too close to voodoo, for me, so... I've been learning that, at some point, my ability to make things *better* by tinkering diminishes rapidly after a certain point

[Shadow]

Tried rishii's suggestion to stretch the springs with a dial caliper, and danged if it dosen't feel like it'll work! I'll give it try next weekend. My only concern with this solution is if/how long the springs will hold the tension.

[rishii]

glad it worked, well, at least for now.

btw, I cann't take credit for it, I remember reading about it in the instructions that came with it.

another think to check is the firing pin stop, you might have trimmed it too much, which allows for excess play, try putting in a unmodified one in and check again. if your tension goes up,

toss the old one, and slowly fit up the new one.

when ever I modify/fiddle/fit/grind/file/ruin/what was I thinking, a part.

I always remember the best advise I ever found on the internet, to quote george smith at egw, "always work on the cheapest part first"

Edited November 28, 2005 by rishii

[Shadow]

I finally got in touch with AFTEC. They provided the following information:

1. Check the springs. They should be .165". All the springs are the same except for the .45. They are shorter.

2. You can gain up to .006-.008" additional engagement by filing the pad just before the notch. This is where the extractor contacts the extractor tunnel. Be careful not to go to deep because of the spring hole.

3. The extractor can be bent using the technique mentioned by Bigbadaboom. Clamp the extractor in a heavy duty vise with approximately .750-.755 extending from the vise (claw end). The first hole must be below the top of the vise by about an eighth inch or the extractor will break. The gentleman I talked to said he uses a metal tube to bend them, but a block of wood and a hammer would work. Modifications void the warranty.

I center drilled a 8 inch piece of 3/8th inch round stock in the lathe to just slip over the extractor (.200) and give leverage. I tested the bending on the old extractor and perfecto! I then modified the two new ones the same way. Again, perfect.

Thanks again to all that replied!