W244 + PD 124 JHP experiences?

[BryceA]

Has anybody else tried the combo in the title? I bought some W244 anticipating the PD 124 JHP being similar to the Hornady 125 HAP but that isn't how things have shaken out. I can load the PD bullets much longer than expected: 1.125" for a Glock 17 Gen5 chamber so that threw it off to start. I'm using a few flakes over max charge from Hodgdons data and am getting sub-minor loads (~994 fps). I suspect it's the difference in OAL is the culprit but going much higher starts to bump up to or past the max loads for most other 124-125 gr load data so I thought I'd check with the experts here to see if anybody else has any relevant experiences.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Farmer]

Are you getting psi signs, are the cases sooty by the mouths? WW 244 is much cleaner than say 231 and it doesn’t seem to be as peaky  as some of the others. I’ve messed around with it in my 9, 10mm and 327 FM and it’s pretty well mannered. If you can calculate how much less bullet is in the case at your length VS what the standard book load is that will help to figure out how much more you can push it. 

[BryceA]

@Farmer, no pressure signs, even after exceeding max load (depending on what bullet profile you use) at 4.2gr. 4.1~4.2 gives about ~130 power factor (1050 fps) out of a Gen5 G17. I'm still a little weirded out by how far I had to go to make power factor. Have you tried any 124gr bullets in 9mm?

 

Other than that, W244 seems like an okay powder. Not super clean but also not bad and the impulse seems reasonable, though I may load up some Sport Pistol rounds to compare with. I'm not keen on how dense it is: I use a Lee Autodisk and I'm really limited in what I can reasonably throw on the low end. It meters well other than the very high density.

Edited September 6, 2020 by BryceA
Wrong fps

[Farmer]

1 hour ago, BryceA said:

@Farmer, no pressure signs, even after exceeding max load (depending on what bullet profile you use) at 4.2gr. 4.1~4.2 gives about ~130 power factor (150 fps) out of a Gen5 G17. I'm still a little weirded out by how far I had to go to make power factor. Have you tried any 124gr bullets in 9mm?

 

Other than that, W244 seems like an okay powder. Not super clean but also not bad and the impulse seems reasonable, though I may load up some Sport Pistol rounds to compare with. I'm not keen on how dense it is: I use a Lee Autodisk and I'm really limited in what I can reasonably throw on the low end. It meters well other than the very high density.

I had loaded up some RMR 124 hp and it shot pretty accurately. I wasn’t pushing them and it did leave a little smoke on the cases but not bad. Actually those were below min charge and a couple more tenths cleaned it up. I’m kinda impressed how easy it is to get decent velocity from that powder. I understand about the Autodisk as that was a problem I was having with min charges. I actually removed my adjustable disk and went with the fixed one during testing.
Not the same powder speed but as an seating depth example is a load in my 44 mag. I cast a 320 grain bullet that seats the same depth in the case as a 240 grain bullet. After careful loading tests I can load the 320 with the same (or a bit more) of H110 as is listed for the 240 jacketed and it runs right at 1400 FPS and granted they are hot. They shoot very accurately and the cases fall out of the cylinder. If I change brass from WW to Starline, FPS jumps to 1475 and things get sticky so one has to be careful with components. Now there’s a multitude of variables going on here but it goes to show how seating depth affects psi. It’s also a bit different with an auto VS revolver but still has an effect. 

[BryceA]

12 hours ago, Farmer said:

Not the same powder speed but as an seating depth example is a load in my 44 mag.

In 9mm I've generally found seating depth to be not a big factor, at least until you get really deep in the case. The PD JHP bullets are not very long (.585" from my $10 calipers) so even loaded to 1.100" it shouldn't be terribly constrained in there. I was basing my expectations on the hodgdons 125 HAP load data which states a COL of 1.069", so maybe 0.056" is more than my normal exploration range and enough to make the difference.

[Farmer]

31 minutes ago, BryceA said:

In 9mm I've generally found seating depth to be not a big factor, at least until you get really deep in the case. The PD JHP bullets are not very long (.585" from my $10 calipers) so even loaded to 1.100" it shouldn't be terribly constrained in there. I was basing my expectations on the hodgdons 125 HAP load data which states a COL of 1.069", so maybe 0.056" is more than my normal exploration range and enough to make the difference.

Are you measuring actual bullet in the case or just taking oal and figuring how much should be in the case? Reason I ask is that nose/shoulder shape, HP design can all affect bullet length and fit. It seems that psi increases/decreases start to occur at around .025 or at least that’s what I’ve found. Smaller case volume changes more quickly. IE 38 special VS 357 Maximum. You can make an easy internal seating depth gauge or just measure components and do the simple math.  

[BryceA]

I'm considering OAL and assuming a reasonably similar bullet length of the HAP and PD JHP. I don't have any HAP on hand and didn't find a length from a quick search.

[Farmer]

The only thing I have is the 124 RMR match winner that’s a TC no hollow point and it measures  .550. I load that with 3.7 244 but at 1.090. It’s a light load and like a dummy I didn’t chrono it. It shoots good for practice. One thing I did notice is that the HAP bullet is .356, what’s your PD diam? Could make some difference there too. To figure how much is in the case, take bullet length + case length - loaded OAL = how much bullet is in the case. 
B .550 + C .750 = 1.3 - OAL 1.090 = .21 in the case.  Of course you’ll have to use your figures but it’s just another tool. 

Edited September 7, 2020 by Farmer

[BryceA]

Based on the PD JHP being a longer bullet by .035" and my longer OAL of 1.125" it seems we have essentially the same seating depth but without chrono results it's not possible to compare. Fwiw, at 3.64gr (starting load, the lowest I can go with the .30cc autodisk) W244 I got ~115 PF and it was definitely a soft load with the brass landing about a yard to the right.

[Farmer]

I was going to chrono a couple but with the 40-50 mph winds and all the blowing dirt we had today I decided to wait. Gonna need a loader to clean off my carport. 
Maybe I can check a couple in the morning before work. 

Edited September 7, 2020 by Farmer

[Farmer]

Sorry this took so long but between high winds, fires, smoke and work it’s been nuts around here. That load with the RMR 124 Match Winners was seated at 1.093, 3.7g of WW244 WSP primer they run at 986 FPS. So a bump to 4.0g would/should get over 1000. This is out of a XDM 4.5”. 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Farmer

[BryceA]

Sounds like we're getting very similar results. I don't know the length of the RMR match winner projectiles, but I suspect the net result is that you have less case volume than I at 1.093 which probably accounts for the slightly higher charge I'm needing.

[Farmer]

50 minutes ago, BryceA said:

Sounds like we're getting very similar results. I don't know the length of the RMR match winner projectiles, but I suspect the net result is that you have less case volume than I at 1.093 which probably accounts for the slightly higher charge I'm needing.

Just ran some at 4.0g 244 and their right at 1026 FPS. The match winners are .550 which puts .21 in my case. 

[BryceA]

Well then, we have nearly the exact same 'in the case' volume. For 3.96gr I found an average velocity of 994fps which is close enough to your results that it could just be the small variance in charge, primer (CCI 500 for me) and different barrel (G17 Gen5 for me), and range brass.