Don't Overlook Surplus Ammo

[Zak Smith]

Discussing precision/MOR rifle calibers, we love to crunch numbers and consider every ballistic subtlety, only use brass and bullets made in elvish sweatshops, and spend countless hours whispering sweet nothings to our reloading gear keeping it consistent enough to ward off a Six Sigma Blackbelt.

Consider that some of the decent 140-150gr surplus ball ammo currently available will shoot about 1 MOA (if not better) in most of our good 308 bolt rifles. That's good enough to hit a 10" plate at 500 yards, easy.

If you are still using inferior 308 match loads (ie, a 175SMK or worse a 168), that means 0.75MOA hold-under at 500 yards. If your standard load doesn't suck (ie, a 155 Scenar), you just ignore the elevation difference of 0.25 MOA. Wind differences is less than 2" more per 10mph. Cost is about half, lots less time spent loading, and you can chuck the brass afterwards.

For practice or action stages to 400-500 yards, no sense in wasting your "good" ammo.

-z

[ErikW]

If you are still using inferior 308 match loads (ie, a 175SMK or worse a 168), that means 0.75MOA hold-under at 500 yards. If your standard load doesn't suck (ie, a 155 Scenar)

Please elucidate further. SMK 168 and 175 are inferior to what as match loads?

Are you saying the Scenar 155 sucks or doesn't suck?

[Zak Smith]

I guess poking fun at the old-school match loads has confused the point, which had nothing to do with "best" long range match loads and everything to do with cheap practice ammo to save time at distances and target sizes when it doesn't matter.

In any case:

1. If you google for 1000 yard use of the 168SMK, you will find all sorts of info on how it should not be use at that distance.

2.

175SMK: BC 0.496 from 1800 - 2800fps

168SMK: BC 0.462 downto 2600, 0.447 downto 2100

Berger 168VLD: 0.512

Berger 175VLD: 537

155 Scenar: 0.508

Run the numbers with reasonable MVs and see....

No reason to shoot a slower and lower-BC bullet unless the better one won't shoot accurately in your barrel.

-z

[ccur]

Jimmy Clark does really well with 168 Black Hills ammo...and I have shot 3/4 moa groups out of my .308 with 118LR....just kinda depends on what your rifle likes..I am really happy when my rifle likes govt.surplus ammo!!

Cheryl

[Zak Smith]

Likewise, for short-range/large-target fodder, there's no reason to use expensive (ie, commercial) or high-effort ammo. Shooting local MOR to 400 yards (Pueblo), I can use basically any 125-155gr bullet with my normal powder charge and not notice any difference. Shooting Australian F4 ball, I just add 0.2mil at 580 yards.

-z

[Paule]

The trap you can fall into is assuming that the published BCs are accurate. All the typical ones as advertised are "normalized" for the G1 drag model. None of the bullets typically shot in .308s are G1. The SMKs and the 175's in the M118LR loads are G5 (boat tails), and the VLDs are all closer to G7 model than anything. While the published BCs are an easy starting point, they are far from adequate for predicting actual performance. Sierra at least tries to compensate by providing adjusted BCs for various velocity ranges.

Too bad the marketing types cling to the G1 numbers. (They are the highest of all for a given bullet). Otherwise we might be able to compare a 175 SMK (G5 BC of .320) with a Berger 175 VLD (G7 BC of .269) apples to apples. Now the only really good way to do it is with two chronos, one at the muzzle and one at the target. Then you can calculate the BCs for your loads. Lots of fun unless you shoot your remote chrono. (don't ask me how I know this, let's just say my newest one has a self-imposed range limit of 500 yards).

Edited September 30, 2005 by Paule

[M118LR]

I use 147 grain Machine gun ammo for practice. I use this ammo when I practice my position shooting. For long range shooting I use M118LR. The ammo is loaded with 175 GRN Sierra Matchkings. In my rifles the M118LR ammo is very accurate. I also have a handload that I use for precision shooting or to shoot tiny groups with.