Saiga 12/Vepr 12 in Tac Ops class?

[mpeltier]

I love my R&R Saigas but I think tac optics should be left alone. No reason to obsolete everyone's shotgun overnight. Want to run a mag fed shotgun and its fun that is what open is for.

Pat

The shotguns used in TO are already obsolete by a tactical weapons standpoint. The archaic rules we continue to go by force us to keep using them in TO. I would gladly buy a new shotgun and put my Benelli back to service as a bird hunting gun if the rules would allow it. Many other sports out there have constant revisions to rules based on improving technology, why such an aversion to such in 3-gun? I have no desire to convert to open.

With that reasoning one could also argue that lasers and optics have obsoleted iron sights, so why not allow lasers and red dots on pistols and shotguns in TO?

Well that is sorta, kinda not really the same. I'm not talking about accessories. In all divisions we allow detachable box magazine fed weapons as far as the pistol and rifle are concerned. There was never such a choice with the shotgun when 3-gun was started, so we were left with the tube fed bird gun. Now that there is such a choice the powers to be decided it should be an "open" gun based only on the fact it has a detachable box magazine. It's inconsistent with the firearms in all other divisions. I would have preferred to see a cap on magazine capacity (like 10 rds) and retain all other stipulations of TO. If the MKA and Saiga were around 20 years ago we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

The Spas 15 a magazine fed shotgun was out over 20 years ago. I like mag fed shotguns as well but the shotgun is kind of dying as a tactical tool other than for breaching so development on it has pretty much came to a standstill so I am not so sure about your comment.

Yeah I remember those, and the Daewoo USAS12, but they had very limited distribution and a very short availability due to politics and werent really available when 3-gun really started to develop. Who knows, maybee the same will happen again. But if it doesn't, perhaps the new crop of detachable box fed shotguns would have a better chance of developing into a more popular and useful tool. Limiting it to open simply hinders its development in my opinion. Instead of dying as you stated, it might prosper. But we're of differing opinions, that's ok. I don't fault you for it. Edited January 30, 2014 by mpeltier

[Haraise]

Yeah. The shotgun is dead. The only question I have for multi gun matches is 'can I shoot it without a shotgun?'

A slide mounted pistol red dot is exactly the spirit of tactical, or it should be. That's what people are using, and it's only growing in the tactical field. Iron sights only is or will soon be relegated to the same section as pump shotguns and lever actions.

[gose]

Well that is sorta, kinda not really the same. I'm not talking about accessories. In all divisions we allow detachable box magazine fed weapons as far as the pistol and rifle are concerned. There was never such a choice with the shotgun when 3-gun was started, so we were left with the tube fed bird gun. Now that there is such a choice the powers to be decided it should be an "open" gun based only on the fact it has a detachable box magazine. It's inconsistent with the firearms in all other divisions. I would have preferred to see a cap on magazine capacity (like 10 rds) and retain all other stipulations of TO. If the MKA and Saiga were around 20 years ago we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

The Spas 15 a magazine fed shotgun was out over 20 years ago. I like mag fed shotguns as well but the shotgun is kind of dying as a tactical tool other than for breaching so development on it has pretty much came to a standstill so I am not so sure about your comment.

Actually, even the Saiga has been out almost 20 years now, since the mid-90s if I remember correctly