Springfield P9 9mm, P9 .40 and EAA EA9 trigger group differences?

[Workingspy]

P.S. I have edited the title to suit all issues I have addressed in next couple of posts. Originally the topic was just for some parts being possibly installed backwards, but in further inspection of all three of my small frame guns I am addressing other questions and problems I am having directly related to the original thread. I have also added a pic to help identify some of my issues and questions both with original post as well as the new posts.

Hello again.

Well since I got such a positive and fast response to my last post, I thought I try again. So I have an EAA Witness EA9 that has been completely worked over. Apon inspection some parts seem to be installed backwards. These seem not to effect the guns function what so ever as it shoots great, I just dont think its right and would like to fix it if I can

First part I noticed this on is the trigger plunger. When I went to replace my mag release I realized the plunger had the flat side facing the mag well. This is the version were the trigger bar must be removed, does it matter which direction it is installed for this version? I have two other Springfield P9's and one is the same design just the plunger is opposite and the other one has the plunger that must be installed one way only and can be removed without removing the trigger.

The second part I noticed this on is the mainspring plug. I first noticed it when my mag would occasionally sometimes catch while loading it if the mag is tilted to the back. I looked in the magwell and realized there was no magazine plate installed and I was hitting the magazing plate pin ears. I took a plate from another P9 I have and thats when I notice the plug was reversed, the mag plate was not able to go in as there is no slot for it on the reverse side of the plug. Again is there a specific reason someone did this or is it just a mistake and could easily be fixed by removing plug and flippping it around? Is it as easy as depressing the plug, removing the pin and taking the plug out?

Here's a pic of all three of my small frame guns. From left to right is a Springfield Model P9 9mm, Springfield Model P9 .40 and an EAA Witness EA9. Only the P9 .40 and the EAA are in question here.

The P9 9mm seems to have a different plunger design all togeather, or it something might be installed incorrectly in the gun as it has a stupid amount of trigger pre travel so it wont help with the question above. This is discussed further along in the thread.

Cheers,
Evan

Edited June 7, 2013 by Workingspy

[CHA-LEE]

The Square end of the plunger needs to be facing the magazine. If its turned the other direction the leading edge of the magazine can hit the rounded end of the plunger because its sticking back in the area that is occupied by the magazine.

I am not sure about the main spring plug.

[Workingspy]

Ok thanks allot. So on my EAA the plunger is facing in the right way thats good, but then my P9 .40 is reversed. On these versions the rounded edge seems to be the same distance from the stem as the flat edge, and I am having no issues what so ever with the mags on the .40. However on my P9 9mm it has the other style plunger with a longer bar that goes out and sits under the trigger bar, I could see how this style could definatly interfear with the mags if reversed.

When I switch the the extended safety from the P9 .40 to the EAA ill reinstall them both it the proper direction.

Cheers,
Evan

Edited June 7, 2013 by Workingspy

[Workingspy]

I have added a pic of the differences in the trigger assembly designs of my three guns.

I was hoping I could get some help here as to why the plunger and trigger bar on the P9 9mm on the far left of the pic above is so much different in design then the other two?

The only thing I can thing of is that the SA trigger pre travel on the 9mm is so much longer then that on the .40 for some reason, by about an inch it seems. It's as if when the hammer is cocked the trigger will not set to SA position and you must over come all that distance in pre travel before you can pull the trigger.

So I am kinda thinking that baseded on the differences in the pic above and how it actually functions maybe there is something installed incorrectly or missing all togeather causing the trigger assemblies geometry to be off. The gun actually fires fine in SA and the pull once it's engaged is good, however there is slight slip and griding between the hammer and sear just as the trigger is pulled and right before the hammer is released. Again this leads me to think of improper install or broken or missing parts.

So is the Trigger assembly design, SA tigger pre travel and gritty sear hammer connection all different things completely, or are they all interconnected and causing problem?

Cheers,

Evan

Edited June 7, 2013 by Workingspy

[kneelingatlas]

The trigger bar on the left rests so much further forward because it's DA, SA triggers limit the range of motion because the only need to engage one set of hammer hooks.

I'll bet the long SA pre travel on your P9 9mm has to do with your disconnector being worn out or the wrong one; if someone used the disconnector from a CZ it would do that.

The slipping/grinding just before the shot breaks is a timing issue; when you file the SA hooks too far on a DA/SA pistol, the hooks on the disconnector start to grab. When it gets really bad the hammer won't drop but just travels back when you release the trigger.

Sometimes when a gun has been worked over it's easier to start over with factory parts than to keep filing to get it right.

If I were you I would take all three apart, visually inspect all the internals, pick my favorite frame, set it up the way I want it (DA/SA or SAO) with all the newest looking parts, then shoot it with each upper and see which one shoots best. I did this with a hand full of small frame Tanfos and found the best barrel didn't necessary shoot best in the best slide, slides in frames etc. It took time, but in the end the best pistol was better than it started and amazingly enough, so was the worst! You would think one of them would end up with all the 'bad' parts and shoot like a lemon, but it's not so much about good/bad as it is about stacking tolerances.

Edited June 7, 2013 by kneelingatlas

[bikerburgess]

Is the P9 still set up for double action? if not I bet someone along the line just removed the disconnector but did not change out the trigger. is its trigger a different shape than the other two?

on the spring plug being backwards I would just turn it around I bet when the original owner removed the shield they were having issues with the mags dropping free and rather than fix it just pulled the shield out and stuck it back together

Mike

[Workingspy]

The trigger bar on the left rests so much further forward because it's DA, SA triggers limit the range of motion because the only need to engage one set of hammer hooks.

I'll bet the long SA pre travel on your P9 9mm has to do with your disconnector being worn out or the wrong one; if someone used the disconnector from a CZ it would do that.

The slipping/grinding just before the shot breaks is a timing issue; when you file the SA hooks too far on a DA/SA pistol, the hooks on the disconnector start to grab. When it gets really bad the hammer won't drop but just travels back when you release the trigger.

Sometimes when a gun has been worked over it's easier to start over with factory parts than to keep filing to get it right.

If I were you I would take all three apart, visually inspect all the internals, pick my favorite frame, set it up the way I want it (DA/SA or SAO) with all the newest looking parts, then shoot it with each upper and see which one shoots best. I did this with a hand full of small frame Tanfos and found the best barrel didn't necessary shoot best in the best slide, slides in frames etc. It took time, but in the end the best pistol was better than it started and amazingly enough, so was the worst! You would think one of them would end up with all the 'bad' parts and shoot like a lemon, but it's not so much about good/bad as it is about stacking tolerances.

Hey man thanks again for some great info.

Sorry but I just have to clarify that out of the three guns in the pic the left (9mm) and center (.40) ones are both DA/SA, and all three are cocked. So at this point the one on the left should be in the same location as the other two, in the single action position right? When I cock the .40 you can actually see the trigger pull back and set in the SA position, the 9mm doesn't move at all.

As for the slipping/grinding this gun has definitely been worked over, it doesn't seem to have the internals worked on but it has been fully parkerized so it has obviously been fully taken apart. When I bought it it was already missing the safety detent and spring which I replaced from Numrich, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few other gremlins still lurking from all that.

All in all it looks like the 9mm will have to be taken apart completely as something is definitely up, with that said it might just be easier to scrap that whole fire control system and start from scratch. Since I have the .40 which is stock and works real nice and the EAA in SA only. maybe I should give this one a real nice DA/SA setup. It might be easier and definitely would be cheaper to get all the parts I need at once in a package, then I could do all or as much of the work as I can on my own and I would be a great learning opportunity for me.

Here's a pic of all three guns in the same positions as the previous pic. Unfortunately the hammers aren't cocked, but you would see as mentioned before the center one would be moved back in SA position and the left one would have remain in where it is now in DA position.

Cheers,

Evan

Edited June 7, 2013 by Workingspy

[kneelingatlas]

The P9 in 9mm definitely has something funky going on with the disconnector.

[Workingspy]

Im looking at Numrich for parts and they have an interrupter in stock for under $20. I wish I knew this two weeks ago when I bought the safety detent and spring, oh well only another $40 shipping lol. I guess ill just buy a bunch of extra parts this time that I might need later on. I am assuming the interruptor is concidered a fire control part also, im not sure they would ship that part anyways.

Cheers,

Evan

Edited June 8, 2013 by Workingspy

[Workingspy]

Is it the disconnector that pulls the trigger bar back when the hammer is cocked? Aftet further inspection this might be a better way of describing whats happening here. Basically when the hammer is cocked the trigger bar doesn't move at all, but the gun still fires from the Sa position just with longer pre travel.

So on another note but still frame related. I decided to play around and try and swap my two 9mm slides onto the others frame. What I discovered was quite interesting the springfield standard slide fits and works great bench firing on the EAA frame, however the Springfield LSP slide doens not dit at all on the springfield frame. Whats up with that?

Cheers,

Evan

Edited June 9, 2013 by Workingspy

[kneelingatlas]

The disconnector controls DA fire.

Its not uncommon for different slides of different vintages to not interchange without some gunsmithing.

Edited June 9, 2013 by kneelingatlas

[Workingspy]

The disconnector controls DA fire.

Its not uncommon for different slides of different vintages to not interchange without some gunsmithing.

Ok so my DA is working properly and when it's fired from DA the following shots are in SA as there supposed to be. What would be stopping the tigger bar/trigger from pulling back to the SA position when the hammer is cocked, manually or after being fired? I've been trying to find a reference of how the hammer, sear, disconnector and trigger bar all work with each other. If there was a problen with the disconnector shouldn't I be having a problem with the DA?

As for the slide all I would really want is to be able to swap the shorter non ported 9mm slide eith the lobger ported LSP slide on the EAA frame, that way I can run the same gun in both standard and open classes. So the compatibility I have right now works fine for me.

Cheers,

Evan

[Workingspy]

So I finally took my problematic gun apart for the first time today, wifes away lol but I should have done it allot sooner. Gotta love used guns, the culprit a boken trigger halo . Well that explains why the trigger wont pull back when cocked, theres nothing for the disconnector to grab lol. Heres a few pics. They have the part at Numrich but with the fifty bucks shipping up to Canada, I just bought parts for this damn gun.

Don't mind my dirty mechanic hands I just got home.

The second problem im having with the hammer grinding over the sear seams to be from a blemish on the sear. Heres a pic for this also. Can I smooth it out to fix it or will I be taking off to much metal for the hammer to engage with properly?

Cheers,

Evan

Edited June 25, 2013 by Workingspy

[kneelingatlas]

Did you find the broken part of the trigger bow? Was it clearly broken? Or could it have been cut? If you don't want to buy a new one just yet, that one would probably work fine in your SAO pistol.

[kneelingatlas]

Oh, and you can definitely polish that sear, just try to keep from rounding it off.

[Workingspy]

It looks like it was clearly broken but has been used for a while as its not sharp, there is also a small crack just up one side. Thats good thinking your right if I'm stuck I could just swap it over, but I think ill try and find a used one or just buy it new. Have you heard of people cutting them? I cant see how that would be good as its kinda flimsy now.

As for the sear what might cause damage likr that?

My buddy and I are going to swapping out his Stock 3 DA trigger, sear and hammer tomorrow so I'll try and do sone polishing on the sear also and see what happens. Actually if the large frame halo is the same as the small frame one I'll try and bring his old one home.

Cheers,

Evan

Edited June 25, 2013 by Workingspy

[kneelingatlas]

The large frame bar is not going to work for you, but it won't hurt to put in the parts pile!

No, I have never heard of anyone cutting the bar but people do crazy things, myself included...

[Workingspy]

So I finally took my problematic gun apart for the first time today, wifes away lol but I should have done it allot sooner. Gotta love used guns, the culprit a boken trigger halo . Well that explains why the trigger wont pull back when cocked, theres nothing for the disconnector to grab lol. Heres a few pics. They have the part at Numrich but with the fifty bucks shipping up to Canada, I just bought parts for this damn gun.

Don't mind my dirty mechanic hands I just got home.

The second problem im having with the hammer grinding over the sear seams to be from a blemish on the sear. Heres a pic for this also. Can I smooth it out to fix it or will I be taking off to much metal for the hammer to engage with properly?

Cheers,

Evan

Just wondering what people whoild suggest I use to correct the damage on the edge of the sear pictured above.aswell as smooth out my new trigger bar. I was thinking I was going to pull my dremmel out and polish them both down, I was just thinking I would ask what other people have done first.

Cheers,

Evan