hyperextending the wrist and ammo question

[Jeremiah]

Could someone explain, in detail, what "hyperextending the wrist" means in regards to a strong thumb riding the safety type of grip?

Does it mean that the off hand's wrist is cocked so the hand is under the forearm? I guess it would be like I was going to pick up a broom stick and point it out away from me like a sword with my left hand? Is that the wrist position I should look for for my left wrist?

I chronoed my wolf ammo today to see what the power factor is. It chronoed at 918 and this was a 230 gr fmj. That comes to a pf of about 210. How much faster could I get using the bare minimum, for IDPA, of 165? Would that require a spring change, and what weight would do it?

Thanks.

By the way, this site helped me threw the process of buying my first 1911. Thanks guys, I'm really happy with my smith! After about five hundred rounds, not one single failure of any kind.

[Duane Thomas]

It means to angle your support hand down so that if you were to open your hand the fingers would point at the ground at about a 45-degree angle.

[Jeremiah]

That sounds uncomfortable, but I'll try it, it's all new to me.

What exactly is the number one reason for doing it this way?

[Jake Di Vita]

Anything gets comforatable if you practice it long enough.

[Duane Thomas]

What exactly is the number one reason for doing it this way?

It springloads the wrist in the down position and IMMENSELY cuts down on muzzle flip.

[John Dunn]

WARNING!!! [Most boring post in forum history]

Just to be incredibly fussy, hyperextending the wrist is not what Duane describes, even though that is clearly what is meant. The proper term would be ulnar deviation. Basically there are six motions of the wrist: flexion, extension, supination, pronation, radial deviation and ulnar deviation.

If you place your hand palm up on a table top and move at the wrist:

Flexion will move your hand off the table, extension is the opposite direction

Pronation will rotate the hand into a palm down position, supination rotates back to palm up.

Radial deviation will leave the hand flat on the tabletop, but will angle the wrist toward the thumb, ulnar deviation will angle it toward the little finger side.

So...when someone talks about getting a proper grip, with the weakhand you want to do just what Duane said and ulnarly deviate your wrist. If you hyperextend (extend the wrist beyond its normal range of motion), not only will you have a jacked up grip, but you will have suffered an injury.

[Loves2Shoot]

That sounds uncomfortable, but I'll try it, it's all new to me.

What exactly is the number one reason for doing it this way?

it is the right way

and it is a 100 times stronger of a grip.

[mcoliver]

... The proper term would be ulnar deviation. ...

Somehow I was suddenly reminded of Erik's rant about phalanges and fingers. :lol:

[DogmaDog]

Basically you have the concept correct--like you were holding a sword pointed forward.

I don't think you should devote too much of your attention to doing it, especially while shooting. If you push your weak hand thumb forward along the frame of the pistol, that will cause you to cant your wrist downward, cultivating that deviant little ulna of yours, and "spring loading" your weak wrist so that you will recover from recoil faster.

You should also grip with side to side pressure in your weak hand, as though your hand were a clamshell forcing itself shut.

I'm not sure that canting the wrist down really aids in the "spring loading", but if you cant the wrist down, then it becomes more difficult to "over shoot" in your recoil recovery--upon recoil, muscle tension in the wrist forces the muzzle back down, and it stops when the wrist can't flex any more, and the sights are back on target!

210 PF is pretty hot, and it would be worthwhile to get some softer loads. You should start reloading as soon as you can, because you'll be able to make your own ammo that is cheaper than Wolf, more accurate than Wolf, at least as reliable as Wolf, and softer shooting than Wolf. Only disadvantage is the time you have to spend doing it.

On the other hand, your time savings while shooting will be pretty negligible. (I assume that's what you mean when you ask "How much faster can I get?" ). Learning the timing of the gun, simply learning through practice how to shoot faster, and learning how to do everything else efficiently are the things that will speed up your shooting. PF of your ammo is a pretty far down on the list of most important factors. In fact, when you first switch to lower PF ammo, you may find it causes you to slow down, just because you aren't familiar with the recoil impulse (this is "learning the timing of the gun").

Springs from about 10 lb up to 18 or even 20 will probably work, with 16lb being factory weight, and 12 or 14 being my preference. I'd keep a factory spring in there to shoot Wolf, and drop it a few pounds once you get closer to 165PF, but the gun should work fine with the factory spring at 165PF.

DogmaDog

[Duane Thomas]

WARNING!!! [Most boring post in forum history

Thanks for the warning.

[Duane Thomas]

I chronoed my wolf ammo today to see what the power factor is. It chronoed at 918 and this was a 230 gr fmj. That comes to a pf of about 210. How much faster could I get using the bare minimum, for IDPA, of 165?

You mean, how much faster could you run a stage, or a standards exercise if the ammo generated a lesser power factor? Thing is, a lesser pf may have no effect on your times. It'll just have an effect on how easily you can shoot to a certain level of speed and accuracy.

BTW you want to shoot (pun intended) for a 170 pf, not 165. You want a bit of a cushion to insure you actually make power factor.

Would that require a spring change, and what weight would do it?

It wouldn't require a change. In my experience, a 1911 will run 170 pf ammo just fine with the standard 16-pound recoil spring. However you may eventually choose to go to a lighter spring, not to make the gun work but to change its perceived recoil impulse. I've run 170 pf loads in a 1911 .45 with recoil spring weights down to 10 pounds with no problems.