BAD Day with Primers...?

[Steve D.]

Shot 50 rnds of .223 Reloads with Federal 205MAR (small rifle match-AR) primers that have worked fine last couple hundred rnds. This group had 8 mis-fires in the box of 50 I put together! Holy-Crap...

The pin was hitting them very well and left a deep dent. They were loaded with H-Benchmark. I do not believe that any primer ignition took place because it was just a "click" and nothing else. All contents and bullet of cartridge remained un-disturbed and ejected without any problem. I always check for proper primer seating-depth below case-head so I dont think they were "high" primers.

Do you think Federal would be interested to have these 8 cases with the struck-primers in-place (after bullets and powder knocked-out) for research or diagnostic purposes?

Does not leave me with a real fuzzy feeling about these caps. Any history on flaky performance from these primers. The have a little "AR" imprineted into the cup metal that can still be faintly seen after firing.

Open to all comments.

[yoshidaex]

Have you tried firing one of the misfires the second time around?

[nanopistol]

I had a whole case of federal pistol primers where the primer insert was raised, not seated well. I had to double pump the primer seating to get them in place, and I shot them only for practice, never in a match.

By the way you describe, looks like you did everything right. The only other thing I can think of is old primers. They do lose their mojo, but that takes several years.

I would pull the bullets apart and inspect. As it is they would be unsafe to try to fire again, and you can probably do as much diagnostic as Federal would care to do and share. And you can recover the bullets and powder for reuse as practice rounds.

Good luck.

[Steve D.]

Have you tried firing one of the misfires the second time around?

Hi yoshida,

I did not try that as I just ejected them from the AR after a 10-count and tossed in a bag with my empty brass. I think if I hit them again the firing pin might have driven through the cup as all the 1st hits were really deep. It almost looked like the primer-cup was displaced to the edge of the primer pocket from the center-punch effect.

It was a realization of how hard these things get hit and the fact that much of that "dent" is popped-back out by the gas pressure and contact with the bolt-face before ejection.

Fired rounds look just fine in terms of pressure signs and primer condition.

I will report back here after I take these suckers apart. Unfortunately, I lightly crimp all my .223 ammo so I will be POUNDING with that stupid hammer-puller tonight...

[Mike Morcillo]

Make sure the primers a fully seated.. If the primers are "High" some of he force from the firing pin is absorbed pushing the primers down, not igniting the primer. Check your firing pin for OAL. My understanding is that Federal primers are the softest to ignite, and I hve never had a primer problem in 10's of thousands of rounds.+

[anachronism]

I'd try refiring the misfires. If the primer isn't fully seated, the firing pin can make a mighty dent in the primer and possibly slightly dislodge the primer anvil at the same time. Not being fully seated actually softens the blow from the firing pin a bit. If the primers fire the second time, you'll want to do some investigation to determine how the primers might not be getting seated properly, so you can make the necessary changes to prevent recurrence. Nobodys saying it's not bad primer, it's just that shallow seating is by far the most common cause of this situation.

[johnnybravo]

I had a whole case of federal pistol primers where the primer insert was raised, not seated well. I had to double pump the primer seating to get them in place,

By the way you describe, looks like you did everything right. The only other thing I can think of is old primers. They do lose their mojo, but that takes several years

This past year I've been using some CCI primers my Dad bought in the 70's, and some Federal he bought in the late 80's. they ran without a hitch. Stored properly, primers can last a while.

I would try the double pump method, turning the case 180 degrees between pumps. Sometimes the cheap fix is what works.