Open Optics Options plus bipods

[michael1778]

Like you might expect from the subject line, I'll be shooting Open. But by next year, I hope to also get a 308 for Heavy Metal (Irons and Optics) competition when it suits my fancy. This is a hobby for me, after all, so I'll do whatever seems fun on a match by match basis.

Originally, I ordered a Burris MTAC 1.5-6x as my main optic with an offset mount Burris FastFire III. However, OpticsPlanet.com does a miserable job of telling you what is in stock well after you place the order. I'm disappointed enough that I have about 36 hours from now to cancel that part of my order before they might ship the two Burris products. So, that got me thinking. I might as well put this out there to others for their more experienced opinions and recommendations. I'm very likely cancelling my OpticsPlanet order as punishment for them for poor business practices. Smaller shops can track online inventory better than OpticsPlanet, which should shame them, but apparently doesn't.

Main scopes I have considered recently, in no particular order:

• Bushnell Elite Tactical 1-6.5x
• Burris Fullfield E1 2-7x (1" tube)
• Burris MTAC 1.5-6x
• Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x
• Vortex Diamondback 2-7x
• Leupold VX-R 2-7x
• Leupold VX-3 2.5-8x
• IOR Valdada 1.5-8

Realistically, the MTAC 1.5-6, Viper PST 2.5-10, and the Bushnell 1-6.5 are the three leaders. I mentioned the others so you can get a better sense for the options I had considered to get to this point. I worry about the 10x on the high end of the PST. Seems like it might be "too much" for most 3-gun applications. The MTAC specs show a fairly narrow FOV, which is a concern. The Bushnell seems fabulous, but you pay for it. And, I've got the 1x range covered with the red dot. However, the Bushnell would be a great optic for Heavy Metal Optics rules. Your thoughts? Should I consider other optical options?

For the offset red dot, does anyone have comparisons of the new FastFire III to the Leupold DeltaPoint series? FastFire III has battery access without removing the dot and is less expensive. But I'm willing to pay extra for quality if the DeltaPoint is the "better" choice.

What bipod recommendations do you all have? I've never used one and am at a loss on how to start. Seems like Harris in the 9-13" range has been the general recommendation?

Thanks in advance. I'm shooting Open primarily because of how my eyes work in certain circumstances.....and I hate loading the shotgun too much. That part isn't negotiable. Open it will be!

[Cap]

I would go with the Bushnell. I don't see most open shooters picking up any time using the side mounted dot. If you ever decided to shoot tac-op or heavy metal optics you would already have the optic in hand. Seems like a simpler solution. The shotgun really makes open open. The rifle not so much.

[Alaskapopo]

I would go with the Bushnell. I don't see most open shooters picking up any time using the side mounted dot. If you ever decided to shoot tac-op or heavy metal optics you would already have the optic in hand. Seems like a simpler solution. The shotgun really makes open open. The rifle not so much.

There is definately a time and a place for a side mounted dot. I have found them easier to use on stages where you need to fire on the move on short range targets. They are also nice if you need to transition quickly from a single firing postition from near to far targets. You can have your main optic setup at greater magnificaiton and use the off set RDS for the close in targets. This comes into play once in a while. I shoot tac optics with the same rifle. Just cover the off set red dot or remove it. No big deal since its in a Larue mount.

Pat

Edited May 7, 2012 by Alaskapopo

[michael1778]

Thank you, gentlemen. Going forward, I'll to the micro red dot for short range with the larger high-power variable optic for the main scope. I"m thinking of the Bushnell as an option for next year if I want that 1-6x range in a single optic.

Between the Burris MTAC 1.5-6x and the Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x, any recommendations?

Is the FastFire III considered good enough compared to the Leupold DeltaPoint?

Is the bipod height I mentioned considered appropriate?

[Alaskapopo]

Thank you, gentlemen. Going forward, I'll to the micro red dot for short range with the larger high-power variable optic for the main scope. I"m thinking of the Bushnell as an option for next year if I want that 1-6x range in a single optic.

Between the Burris MTAC 1.5-6x and the Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x, any recommendations?

Is the FastFire III considered good enough compared to the Leupold DeltaPoint?

Is the bipod height I mentioned considered appropriate?

Personally I think 1.5-6 is more of a useful range for the game than 2.5-10 and I own a 2.5-10 Nightforce with a Aimpoint R1 on one of my precision rifles. Great set up for longer range shooting but slower up close. The reticle in the Vortex is nice for precision shooting as well a friend of mine has one but I found it too fine for speed.

Pat

[AlamoShooter]

its no surprise that I like Vortex, Jerry was using the new Razor Dot scope with side mount thishttp://www.vortexoptics.com/category/razor_red_dot year. its no the web site and I am getting one to try on my speed targets in Sportsman Team Challenge nationals next month.

So much Old School attitude about scope power was over how clear a shooter can see the target and the hits. Good glass lets me see better at 4X than my Leupold gold ring did at 6 x.

Keep in mind most ROs get worn down and do not or can not call hits with any speed, the good shooters with good gear see the hit have all ready moved to the next target before the RO call hit.

Thats one reason it looks like they transition so fast.

With the 2 -10 Vortex you will never come up to a stage wishing you had more glass.

I don't see my self shooting open for some time. but shooting the AR with a tilt to the left is very comfortable on you wrist and right arm. I would shoot my tac-optic gun like that if some stages did not require Left hand shooting.

But I am just a beginner at three gun really.

[michael1778]

Thanks Pat. I appreciate your thoughtful input. For now, I may just roll with the pair of Burris products, get some more matches under my belt, and then make changes over time, if needed. I might move the MTAC 1.5-6 over to my backup rifle if I decide on the Bushnell 1-6.5 at a later date. I'd pair that with the FastFire III. Time will tell.

Jamie,

Thank you also. I'll kick this around tonight and make a decision before OpticsPlanet can stick the scope in the mail. I saw that Nick was using the PST 2.5-10 in Open division in earlier matches. Was that 2010 or early 2011 events? Would you recommend the MRAD or the MOA version of that Vortex scope? I have no experience base either way, so nothing to un-learn.

The reticles are very different. That's nice, but also complicates the decision.

Late EDIT: OpticsPlanet is back ordered on the offset mount until July and the two Burris items have slipped to 10 days from now. I've lost confidence that I can make the June match with that order so I'll start over on my optics search/purchase.

Edited May 8, 2012 by michael1778

[AlamoShooter]

Thanks Pat. I appreciate your thoughtful input. For now, I may just roll with the pair of Burris products, get some more matches under my belt, and then make changes over time, if needed. I might move the MTAC 1.5-6 over to my backup rifle if I decide on the Bushnell 1-6.5 at a later date. I'd pair that with the FastFire III. Time will tell.

Jamie,

Thank you also. I'll kick this around tonight and make a decision before OpticsPlanet can stick the scope in the mail. I saw that Nick was using the PST 2.5-10 in Open division in earlier matches. Was that 2010 or early 2011 events? Would you recommend the MRAD or the MOA version of that Vortex scope? I have no experience base either way, so nothing to un-learn.

The reticles are very different. That's nice, but also complicates the decision.

Keep in mind Pat has a great point about the 6X too the new 1-6 high $$ scopes would be great.

But for me 1.5 or 2 I cant much see the difference. But when I get the 1-6 that will be cool

MOA or MRAD ? I spent over 20 years competing in STC / battalion style targets using an MOA scope.

I was not sure how quick I could learn MRAD. I got my head around that real quick MRAD makes great sense if you have targets in the 1 yard size or 1/2 yard size . Guess What The USPSA target is 18" wide so its 1/2 a Mill at 1000 yards if a full size uspsa target is a full mill in width its 500 yards away.

I am going MRAD as my first pick on all my new scopes. BUT MOA is good for 10" targets too. a 10 target will be two moa tall or wide at 500 yards ( approximately ) really closer to 1.95 MOA wide

1moa = 1.07 " at 100 yards :wacko:

[michael1778]

Closing the loop on the optics buy:

For now, I selected the two Burris items. The MTAC 1.5-6 and the FastFire III 3 MOA dot (pic rail mount).

New Edit: Except the place I found the MTAC had someone else get the last one in stock before I did. This is crazy. Almost like someone is telling me I should pick a different scope.

Not sure if I want to tackle a bipod yet or not.

Edited May 9, 2012 by michael1778

[AlamoShooter]

Closing the loop on the optics buy:

For now, I selected the two Burris items. The MTAC 1.5-6 and the FastFire III 3 MOA dot (pic rail mount).

New Edit: Except the place I found the MTAC had someone else get the last one in stock before I did. This is crazy. Almost like someone is telling me I should pick a different scope.

Not sure if I want to tackle a bipod yet or not.

I have not looked at the Vortex Diamondback ,and I do not know if it is suited for 3 gun I think its on the low end of the preference scale

[michael1778]

If I go Vortex, I'll surely do the Viper PST 2.5-10.

[AlamoShooter]

I just got the Vortex Razor -Red Dot- RZR and Its Cool The Intensity of the dot can be turned up and down. No more one power setting.

Setting it up to check the -Parallax- on a post top 90 yards away proves that the dot stays on target no mater ware how much I move my eye or the dot in the lens.

It looks like great as an addition to a good long range glass.

http://swfa.com/Vortex-Razor-Red-Dot-Sights-C4137.aspx

its not cheep in any way

Edited May 11, 2012 by AlamoShooter

[michael1778]

I just got the Vortex Razor -Red Dot- RZR and Its Cool The Intensity of the dot can be turned up and down. No more one power setting.

Setting it up to check the -Parallax- on a post top 90 yards away proves that the dot stays on target no mater ware how much I move my eye or the dot in the lens.

It looks like great as an addition to a good long range glass.

Thanks for the initial hands-on impressions. Sounds like it is functioning as advertised. Pairing it with a PST 2.5-10 might be one solution.

[michael1778]

In the end, I went with a copy cat set-up to what Nick used for a while. I've got the new Burris FastFire III and the Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10. Now I have to find a decent rifle range somewhere. That's like finding hen's teeth around my area in NC. Crazy......

Thanks to all of you that replied, as well as to Nick. Soon we will see how this works at Tarheel 3-Gun Challenge, in about 10 days.