taprackandroll Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Hello everyone I have a few questions for the enlighten ones here. Yes I did a search and I couldn't really find the answer to my questions. A little history, I am not new to shooting, I have been shooting my entire life. I have a wide array of handguns (g22(duty weapon), g27, Kimber 1911 tle, Norc 1911, S&W 422,lcp,and now witness match in 9mm). Anyhow back on topic I bought the Match to use as a range/competition gun because ammo is cheap and I have heard great reviews on this pistol. There are two local clubs in my area one shoots IDPA and one shoots USPSA. I would like to try both and see which one I like better. Which class does the witness match fall into? second question. I need more mags and I have read some horror stories about mag issues with these and I want to make sure I purchase the correct ones. Also I am concerned about the weight of this pistol as it concerns IDPA what can I do to ensure that the gun is legal with out spending a lot of money. IS there any thing from your experience that I should do to this firearm besides shoot it? Thanks in advance have a great day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 The Witness Match will be legal in USPSA's Limited and Limited 10 divisions. For IDPA, assuming it weights 43 oz or less with an empty magazine inserted, it'll go into the Enhanced Service Pistol (ESP) The magazine problems were with the old style magazines for large frame guns manufactured by Tanfoglio. (In the US, in general we have the large frame guns, unless you've got an old pistol.) Any way, if you've got the Mec-Gar magazines, you'll be fine. Mec-Gar mags are distinguished by have K9, K40, K45, ... stamped on the side of the magazine, and usually have a black colored follower. The older Tanfoglio mags have the caliber stamped and usually have a red follower. You typically don't need to throw in any enhancements on a EAA Match right off the bat (unlike 1911's I hear). If you like the trigger as it is now. There's no other work to do. If it feels a little gritty, you'll need to polish the sides of the trigger bar, the top of trigger plunger, and the area under the trigger bar that the plunger rubs against. You can do this yourself. See Hennings video: http://henningshootsguns.com/tech/tech.tanfoglio.frame.assembly.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Taking a peek at eaacorp.com, it looks like the Witness Match weighs in at 44 oz. I don't know if that is with a magazine or not, or if the magazine is loaded. Hopefully somebody who shoots IDPA with a Witness Match can tell you what they did to make weight. The tricks I've seen/heard CZ shooters use include using 10 round magazines, swapping in lighter grips, and going with plastic guide rods. I don't know if you'll have the same options available to you with a Match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taprackandroll Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Thanks for the information, I hadn't even received the new pistol yet i was just trying to get in front of any issues I may have. I hadn't planned on doing anything to it unless it is "necessary ". I am usually a big opponent to modifying a pistol prior to breaking something or running 500 rounds through it first. I never had to do anything to any of pistols just shoot and clean them (glocks gets cleaned once a year haha) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pivoproseem Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 If your Match has a rail, it will be too heavy for IDPA. My older 9mm Match (no rail) barely makes weight and it doesn't help that the new Mec-Gar mags are heavier than the old style, but they work. The old style mags cost me dearly at the 2010 IDPA Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenG Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 If your Match has a rail, it will be too heavy for IDPA. My older 9mm Match (no rail) barely makes weight and it doesn't help that the new Mec-Gar mags are heavier than the old style, but they work. The old style mags cost me dearly at the 2010 IDPA Championship. Crap. I just bought a Match in .40 for IDPA ESP. Short of selling it or machining off the rails, what, if any, are my options? On another note, the gun came with one K40 marked mag and I got here more from Midway. All three have problems locking into the gun, empty or loaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pivoproseem Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 The 40 is lighter than the 9mm, due to the thinner barrel wall. The railed frame appears to be longer than the non-railed version. If you want to keep the gun and use it for IDPA, I'd look into chopping the frame at the front, then milling (or hand filing) the rail off. I think there is more weight that could be removed from the rear of the frame under the grips. A set of wood grips add to the weight saving. ...but I would weigh it without the grips before I did any cutting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-mishka Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 @ StephenG I think you just need to sand top surface of the plastic mag pads, not too much though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjoy Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hello everyone I have a few questions for the enlighten ones here. Yes I did a search and I couldn't really find the answer to my questions. A little history, I am not new to shooting, I have been shooting my entire life. I have a wide array of handguns (g22(duty weapon), g27, Kimber 1911 tle, Norc 1911, S&W 422,lcp,and now witness match in 9mm). Anyhow back on topic I bought the Match to use as a range/competition gun because ammo is cheap and I have heard great reviews on this pistol. There are two local clubs in my area one shoots IDPA and one shoots USPSA. I would like to try both and see which one I like better. Which class does the witness match fall into? second question. I need more mags and I have read some horror stories about mag issues with these and I want to make sure I purchase the correct ones. Also I am concerned about the weight of this pistol as it concerns IDPA what can I do to ensure that the gun is legal with out spending a lot of money. IS there any thing from your experience that I should do to this firearm besides shoot it? Thanks in advance have a great day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjoy Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I have a pre-rail large frame match in 9 mm that I have been using for about 3 years for both IDPA and USPSA. At the 2011 NM state match, this gun weighed in at 41.8 oz. I have had it weigh in at 42 even at other ranges. Close to Max but still legal. I shoot it in IDPA ESP division and USPSA limited. Without a doubt, my favorite handgun. Very reliable and very accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmbaccolyte Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) I haven't weighed my new Match w/ acc rail, but the grips it came with are plastic and probably lighter than the rubber grips, which have been standard for a while. I suspect the weight listed on the EAA website is with the older rubber grips and an empty magazine. Idea # 2 to make weight (if necessary) for IDPA ESP class: CZ has a polymer guide rod ($5 plus shipping) that would weigh almost nothing, but I don't know if it would fit our pistol. It would be a bunch lighter then the full length steel guide rod we have. Someone previously posted that our steel guide rod weighs an ounce by itself. Idea # 3: For the .40 S&W caliber- The K40 mag has a steel spacer that keeps the cartridge forward for good feeding. The K10 mag lacks this spacer and so it should be lighter, but use of the 10mm mag requires loading long to about 1.26" (credit to CHA-LEE for OAL idea to solve feeding problem). We're going to have to locate an accurate scale to test these ideas, though. Good luck. Edited February 25, 2012 by jmbaccolyte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenG Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 What about a guide rod made of delrin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmbaccolyte Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 StephenG, Who makes it and what does it cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenG Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) StephenG, Who makes it and what does it cost? I was going to make it myself. I have access to milling machines and lathes. I was not sure if it was actually going to work or not. Edited February 29, 2012 by StephenG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmbaccolyte Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 StephenG, You're way ahead of me then. I'd ask Henning Wallgren or one of the other experts on this forum for their opinion on how to shape it or just copy the full length steel guide rod that came with it. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenG Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 StephenG, You're way ahead of me then. I'd ask Henning Wallgren or one of the other experts on this forum for their opinion on how to shape it or just copy the full length steel guide rod that came with it. Good luck. IDK, the more I read Henning's site, the more I think delrin won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmbaccolyte Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Is the new EAA Match legal for IDPA ESP? I had a Match w/ acc rail (.40 S&W) with the recent factory plastic grips and a K10 magazine (I've been loading to 10mm OAL) weighed on a certified postal scale (not at the post office) and it came out to 2.65 pounds or 1.22 Kilograms. But 2.65 pounds is 42.4 ounces and 1.22 kilograms is 43.03 ounces, so I need a more accurate scale. Edited March 8, 2012 by jmbaccolyte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 2.65 pounds is 1.202 kg. I think you lost a zero there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmbaccolyte Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Maybe I wasn't clear. The employee who weighed it quoted me the weight in pounds as 2.65 and then he weighed it in kilograms as 1.22. So for practical purposes, my Match's weight is right at the limit. Regardless of which number is correct, I guess common sense would indicate I need to shave a little weight so I don't have problems with the scale at a match, if I want to compete in IDPA ESP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 That still doesn't work out because 1.22 kg is 2.69 lbs. I still suspect that the employee lost a zero there when quoting you a weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmbaccolyte Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Okay, so you think he read 1.202 kilograms off the scale as,"one. twenty. two" and I heard "one twenty-two" or 1.22. That makes a lot of sense, because you'd think that the scale would come up with the same weight whether in pounds or kilograms. Edited March 9, 2012 by jmbaccolyte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenG Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I ended up selling the match and getting a CZ75 SP-01 Shadow from Shay at Akai. Still going to be in the same boat for IDPA though. With the full length dust cover it would have to make 39 ounces in SSP to use it in ESP. Don't think that's gonna happen. Looks like USPSA Production for me! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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