Match Operations Questions

[DJM3808]

We're going to run a couple of AP matches this winter at the WCFW range in northern CO. I have some questions regarding match operations that some of you may be able to help with.

It looks like we can run Los Alamitos, Practical, Speedload Challenge and Unsupported Standard with out adding any range equipment.

Does anyone have clearing times figured out for these, how much time per shooter from start to finish?

Do you typically use multiple timers with the par times pre set? How much frustration in having to change the par time for every string like on the Practical?

Do you use new targets for each shooter or try to run more than one on a set? Obviously they get shot up a lot more than the usual USPSA match so I'm thinking about having several sets and change them out to score after every shooter.

Is anyone using MGM spaced plate racks for the falling plates or does it make too much difference for time?

This will be an outdoor match without automated targets holders.

Any info is appreciated!

[Allgoodhits]

You should budget 12-15 minutes per event, but it should go quicker than that. Each event is only about a minute of actual shooting time. Hold ups are people coming to the line without what they need to shoot the entire COF. Such as sufficient magazines, speedloaders or loading blocks to shoot 48 rds and eye and ear protection etc. Also, target change out can consume time if not organized. Do not score on the frames, that takes too much time too. Do have a scoring area close by. The next relay can be shooting while the previous relay targets are scored.

If you can shoot multiple lanes of shooters then obviously this adds to number of shooters per hour that can get through the event.

Whether you shoot multiple shooters per par set is dependent on spacing and hearing ability. If a fun match then slight overs don't matter, but if "overs" count, then you may be best to run each shooter with a separate par time. Just shoot one string (par setting)for each shooter, before changing the setting for the next par time strings, and repeat. This will save time too.

Last, if your facility will permit multiple shooters, shooting more than one event at a time, this saves a lot of time. Of course you need for space, berms, targets, frames and RO's for that too.

MJ

[gm iprod]

All sensible stuff.

Squad people in teh same number of squads as matches you intend to shoot or can shoot at any one time. That way each squad will actually organise tehmselves properly and take care of the brass pickup and target swapping out.

Anyone who does not help out gets to loose their brass, when you pick it up.

[DJM3808]

You should budget 12-15 minutes per event, but it should go quicker than that. Each event is only about a minute of actual shooting time. Hold ups are people coming to the line without what they need to shoot the entire COF. Such as sufficient magazines, speedloaders or loading blocks to shoot 48 rds and eye and ear protection etc. Also, target change out can consume time if not organized. Do not score on the frames, that takes too much time too. Do have a scoring area close by. The next relay can be shooting while the previous relay targets are scored.

If you can shoot multiple lanes of shooters then obviously this adds to number of shooters per hour that can get through the event.

Whether you shoot multiple shooters per par set is dependent on spacing and hearing ability. If a fun match then slight overs don't matter, but if "overs" count, then you may be best to run each shooter with a separate par time. Just shoot one string (par setting)for each shooter, before changing the setting for the next par time strings, and repeat. This will save time too.

Last, if your facility will permit multiple shooters, shooting more than one event at a time, this saves a lot of time. Of course you need for space, berms, targets, frames and RO's for that too.

MJ

Comparing this to a typical USPSA match, If we had 4 courses of fire (you call them events?) set up on 4 separate berms or ranges, is it reasonable to plan on running 3-4 squads of 10-12 shooters through all 4 courses of fire in say 4 or 5 hours?

We have the room and the equipment to run 2 shooters on each course at the same time and probably want to do that.

Our monthly USPSA matches draw 50 - 60 shooters on 5 courses of fire and we get through it all in 5 hours or less, It looks like the AP events I mentioned using will take longer I'm just trying to get a feel for how much. If I read you right, 12-15 minutes per event would mean 4 shooters per hour or 8 if we run 2 at a time?

At your AP matches do you run squads on more than 1 range?

How many events or courses of fire are typical?

Hope I'm not making this more complicated then it needs to be.

Thanks,

[BigDave]

You should also consider running open squads. Have ROs so you can run 2, 3, or 4 events at a time. I also strongly recommend running at least two shooters per COF simultaneously, if space allows. Most people from USPSA or IDPA backgrounds won't be used to that, but this is a different animal.

If you can, I also recommend assigning 4 targets to each shooter that they'll carry with them to the shooting line and between stages.

[Griz]

Comparing this to a typical USPSA match, If we had 4 courses of fire (you call them events?) set up on 4 separate berms or ranges, is it reasonable to plan on running 3-4 squads of 10-12 shooters through all 4 courses of fire in say 4 or 5 hours?

We have the room and the equipment to run 2 shooters on each course at the same time and probably want to do that.

If you regularly have 40 shooters, you'll probably have the biggest club match in the country.

It looks like the AP events I mentioned using will take longer I'm just trying to get a feel for how much. If I read you right, 12-15 minutes per event would mean 4 shooters per hour or 8 if we run 2 at a time?

It all depends on the shooters... Experienced shooters who know the CoF and have all of their gear worked out can run through most courses of fire in less than 5 minutes. When you throw in new shooters who don't know the CoF or shooters who screw around with jams, reloading mags, elaborate pre-string dances, etc you'll get to the 15 mins per event number.

Get your shooters on the line (2, 3 or however many your range will support), read the instructions for the string if they need it, have them "Load and Make Ready" and run them 1 at a time through each string.

i.e. on the Practical:

set the timer for 3 seconds, RO stands behind 1st shooter and gives the commands "Ready" "Standby" *beep*. 1st shooter shoots the 1 and 1 string.

RO steps over to the second shooter "Ready" "Standby" *beep* 2nd shooter shoots the 1 and 1 string.

RO steps over to the third shooter "Ready" "Standby" *beep* 3rd shooter shoots the 1 and 1 string.

RO walks back to the first shooter and sets the timer for 4 seconds. "Ready", "Standby", *beep*. 1st shooter shoots the 2 and 2 string.

RO steps over to the second shooter "Ready" "Standby" *beep* 2nd shooter shoots the 2 and 2 string.

RO steps over to the third shooter "Ready" "Standby" *beep* 3rd shooter shoots the 2 and 2 string.

Repeat for 3 and 3 string. Competitors on the firing line are expected to keep their guns "hot", so each competitor will reload if they need to while the RO is running the next guy.

Everyone moves back to the 15 yard line with holstered, loaded guns.

Rinse and repeat.

After the final string, clear and bag each gun, and then the competitors retrieve their targets, hang new ones and then head back to score each other's targets while the next group is going through the course of fire. We usually pick up our brass on the 10 yard line ASAP and then pick up at the 15 and back while the next group is shooting up close.

You can speed it up a lot if you have turning targets so everyone can shoot simultaneously, or if everyone shoots together with timers on the honor system and fesses up when they go overtime. If they don't fess up, they only hurt themselves by possibly getting bumped up a classification, kind of inverse sandbagging

I would recommend using new targets for each shooter. They paid for them with their match fees so let them keep the targets to paste up for practice. Also, pasted targets don't last very long, so if you have some good shooters, the centers will be falling out after a few shooters, or if you have a bunch of bad shots, you'll be spending as much for pasters as for new targets

At your AP matches do you run squads on more than 1 range?

How many events or courses of fire are typical?

Hope I'm not making this more complicated then it needs to be.

Thanks,

We have dedicated ranges for each event at my home range. We don't formally squad, we just shoot the events as we please. If you really have 40 shooters show up, you will have to squad up, otherwise you'll have everyone stacking up on the easiest event first and wanting to shoot the plates last.

On the number of events, I would say that 4 are typical around here. If these are registered matches, you need 144 shots to get classified, so it is nice to have that many shots in your match so that new shooters get a classification card after their first match.

Changing the timer isn't a big deal. We use CED8000 timers which have the common Bianchi Cup events preprogrammed. Some guys don't like them because they can be confusing to use for multiple shooters.

Use the plates racks you already have.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Griz

[Action Pistolero]

DJM3808,

Send Goneracin (Bob Reinhardt) a PM and tell him to come out and give you a hand. He recently moved to CO from our neck of the woods and is chompin at the bit to get some shooting in. He designed and built a good bit of the equipment at the Bedford range. With his help, the range in Bedford is one of the finest in the country.