why am I shooting low on Bill drills?

[fastarget]

Gun is sighted properly, but as the rate of fire is increasing I am getting consistant tight groups doing timing and Bill drills that are lower than intended. Watching the sights, after recoil the gun settles lower than what my POA was starting off the exercise.

I might be able to go one pound lower on recoil spring, but not much more. Switched between aluminum and steel magwells to see if the balance can be changed, but not much of an improvement.

I am not attempting to pull down on the gun during recoil, it just seems to want to settle lower. So it must be me. A diagnosis and correcting technique recommendation would be appreciated. Tx.

[Flexmoney]

Iron sights or dot?

What are you looking at?

What is your one driving thought while you shoot?

[fastarget]

Thank you for your reply,

Iron sights black on black.

Not much thinking I believe, I am looking at the sights go up and down cleanly, clearly at a rapid rate of fire. after 6 or 7 rounds out of 10 It becomes odd that the bullet holes are not appearing where I expect them to be.

Something is amiss, just not sure what it is yet.

[BBoyle]

What are the times, splits?

Are the splits faster when the rounds drop than when they are all As?

Sounds like at speed you are going to the front sight alone while it is deep in the notch or it may be a trigger control issue as you try to time gun.

Would have to see a vid from the side as well as the hits for people to give the best advise.

What recoil spring are you running? What gun?

If you are really seeing the sights with every shot all the impacts will be within 2 inches of where you called them.

[fastarget]

What are the times, splits?

Are the splits faster when the rounds drop than when they are all As?

Sounds like at speed you are going to the front sight alone while it is deep in the notch or it may be a trigger control issue as you try to time gun.

Would have to see a vid from the side as well as the hits for people to give the best advise.

What recoil spring are you running? What gun?

If you are really seeing the sights with every shot all the impacts will be within 2 inches of where you called them.

Great questions,

I did this exercise 5 or 6 times with 10 rounds each time in the last 2 days(same results in the last 4-5 practice sessions). Timer used , but did not write down all....(.26-.30) this is as fast as I can go and not open up my groups.

Using IDPA targets, I am still in the circle till 10yds, however in the lower half of the circle although POA is at center of circle. Hits are about 2" low from POA. This is accentuated at 15 and for sure 20 yds, now I am under the circle in -1 zone.

The gun is recovering from recoil consitently the same each shot,but the front sight is low in the notch (repeatable, it is where it seems to go to each shot) 10shot groups are 1". I know the gun is settling a bit low each time, but not sure what to do to change that, therefore my dilema. I am not pulling down on it, just letting it do its thing.

Gun is an sti eagle, 9mm, 10lb spring. Thank you great questions.

[CatsEye]

You say your not pulling down on it but it sort of sounds like you are fighting the recoil. Either that, or like BBoyle mentioned you are slightly jerking the trigger as the sight returns. Its one of those things that are hard to comment on without seeing. Regardless of what you think you are or are not doing right or wrong be open to the possiblilty.

[fastarget]

I am open to all possibilities, so I seek advice to try different things as a means of improving.

Jerking the trigger is possible, I notice it when in am in a big hurry especially at distanced targets.

I feel like I have a good grip on the gun. Sights return to the same place, but front is low. Offcourse this is a non=issue if I time the shots one second apart. so I am doing something as I try and lower the split times, whatever it is , I am repeating it exactly otherwise my groups would open up.

Edited May 16, 2011 by fastarget

[Flexmoney]

I feel like I have a good grip on the gun. Sights return to the same place, but front is low.

Shoot more, with a desire to only align the front sight with the rear sight (lose the target, shoot into the berm).

[fastarget]

I feel like I have a good grip on the gun. Sights return to the same place, but front is low.

Shoot more, with a desire to only align the front sight with the rear sight (lose the target, shoot into the berm).

Thanks, I will do that to reteach myself where to stop the gun, it will take a bit of work.

[want2race]

Also try a hammer drill. 3 yards shoot as fast as possible into the down 0 area. Aim at center of -0-. One sight picture, snacth the trigger twice as fast as possible. Try to get into the mid to low teens if possible. Read the shots on paper. Adjust grip strength in both hands around and see what that does to the shots on paper. This may show you can shoot faster, not slower, to keep them in the down zero. I found that I can really loosen up on the gun and still put two shots next to each other. Then work the distance back to see how far away you can get and still keep them in the down 0.

You are already running a light recoil spring so I wouldn't look to change that quite yet.

After the hammer drill, and fast bill drills, the last thing to do is slow it down. Add 1 to 1.5 seconds to your avg quick time and try to shoot it at that slower pace. Watch the sights. After trying to burn it down, mentally slowing it down 1 to 1.5 seconds may just allow you to see what you've been missing.

Just things to try.

[xd1977]

I had the same problem for awhile till I had a shooting buddy watch my movement while I draw and shoot. Same thing, low round strike, more pronounced out past 10". Problem was, I was lowering my eyes/head to the sights rather than bringing the sights to eye level. My buddy solved this by (and pay attention to the ingenuity here..haha!) duct taping a red pointing laser to a ball cap bill and he had me put it on. After the draw, dry fire bringing the sights to eye level and try to prevent the red dot from moving and keep it in the same spot. I couldn't believe it, but after doing this a couple of hundred times, my rounds began to strike point of aim on every shot, dramatic improvement! This may be the problem..or maybe not. Hard to tell without watching you fire.

[fastarget]

interesting, I will have to try that with my laser bore sighter and see what I find out.Hmmmmm

[DoubleA]

I had the same problem for awhile till I had a shooting buddy watch my movement while I draw and shoot. Same thing, low round strike, more pronounced out past 10". Problem was, I was lowering my eyes/head to the sights rather than bringing the sights to eye level. My buddy solved this by (and pay attention to the ingenuity here..haha!) duct taping a red pointing laser to a ball cap bill and he had me put it on. After the draw, dry fire bringing the sights to eye level and try to prevent the red dot from moving and keep it in the same spot. I couldn't believe it, but after doing this a couple of hundred times, my rounds began to strike point of aim on every shot, dramatic improvement! This may be the problem..or maybe not. Hard to tell without watching you fire.

That is pretty freak'n cool. Im gonna have to try this. I know for a fact that I tend to hunch down onto the sights a bit.