7 or 8 Rounders

[tightloop]

Why are the SO's, (read the IDPA BoD) getting their shorts in a wad trying to force the CDP shooters to use either one or the other for every stage throughout the entire match?  Least they forget that until Devel brought out the 8 round mags in the early '80's all you could shoot was 7 round mags.  8 round mags were all after market until very recently.  Since they won't call round dumping on the SSP and ESP shooters, not being able to interchange as the stage calls for, puts CDP shooters at a disadvantage more than ever.

[Larrys1911]

Titeloop,

Well, cause its an advantage on some stages!

If they would allow that, why not just let people download their mags to whatever capacity they wish?  

Its VERY difficult to call dumping rounds on someone, MOST of the time! With someone shooting Exp or Master that knows their stuff its Darn near impossible!

Most wouldn't catch the 7 to 8 round mag change, BUT if they do it will not be worth it!  

Above and beyond that, CDP only competes against CDP.

If you want to compare yourself to those other divisions you will have to take into consideration that you are starting at a disadvantage,  Or are you?

Larry P

Its better to burn out...than to fade away!

[tightloop]

Larry

Are you telling me not to worry about the mule going blind, just load the wagon?

(Edited by tightloop at 10:34 am on July 24, 2002)

[Bill Schwab]

David,

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, are you implying that the BoD is trying my have all CDP shooters use 7 or 8 round mags universally?  

I haven't shot much IDPA this year, am I outta the loop?

Bill

[Nik Habicht]

Bill,

Since there's a requirement in all courses requiring a reload to start topped off (i.e. 10+1 in SSP) unless the course description requires something different, some people noticed that it would be an advantage to use 7 round magazines on these stages --- at least to start, because your slide-lock reload would come between targets, rather than between shots on one target.  So IDPA came up with a rule requiring shooters to declare and use either 7 or 8 rounders in CDP, but not both.

[tightloop]

I did not mean to mislead anyone, the BoD has not universally declared that you must either shoot 7 or 8 round mags, although that might clear this up.

As Nik said, the use of one or the other might give you the opportunity to change mags between targets, and not just between shots on a target.   Since I am old, trained under Jeff C, who taught us to never shoot your pistol dry, I have a problem with the whole tac load thing anyway, but that is another item.

Our Coordinator can't show me in the Green Bible, where it says you must declare which kind of mag you are going to use and then shoot that kind for every stage for the entire match.  My personal opinion is that you should be able to interchange them at will, anywhere in the stage or in the match.  I will play by the rules, just show me where it says you can't interchange them.  Our coordinator's comments to us is that, "...that is the way they do it in Arkansas and that is the way we are going to do it here."  Great I am happy for Arkansas, but if you can't show me in the rule book, stop whining and let it go.  If you can show me, in the rule book, I will stop asking about it.  

[Nik Habicht]

I'll try to punch some holes in your logic.  I can't load my Glock 9+1 or some other other arbitrary number of rounds to allow me to plan my slidelock reloads.  In other words, if the stage requires 8 + 8 all from behind cover, say while moving along a wall, I'm either gonna have to run my gun dry and do a standing slidelock reload or I'm gonna have to do a tac-load.  Now with 1911s you have your choice of 7 or 8 round mags.  Shoot this with 8 rounders and you'll have to dump a round or do a tacload.  Shoot it with seven rounders and you'll have to do two reloads.  I suspect the rule (or rule interpretation) comes from a desire to keep CDP competitors from having to purchase two sets of magazines and to attempt to eliminate the ever dreaded gaming in this supreme tactical training endeavor called IDPA.  

Finally, they do issue rule updates and clarifications in the Tactical Journal between BOD Meetings and updates to the rulebook.  Those updates/clarifications, to the best of my knowledge, carry the same weight as the rule book.

[Bill Schwab]

LOL, I was under the impression that you HAD to use either 7 or 8 round mags throughtout the match, but I never thought to make sure it was in the rule book.  

I guess being the true gamer I am, I must buy at least one 7 rounder to take advantage of this lack of clear direction.  Woohoo

Bill

[tightloop]

On page 32, the rule book says that in a Vickers string requiring a reload, you must start the string with the mag topped off to the max rounds allowed in that division.  It says nothing about not allowing you to folow that with a 7 round mag if it benefits you do so.

Do you know of an update either in the Tac Journal or anywhere else that says you cannot do that?

That was the thing I enjoyed about IPSC, if it was not in the rules and not clearly defined in the stage description you could use it.  I am like Bill, if you can out think the stage designer, and it benefits you, you should be allowed to use it.

This is a game not serious pistol training.   If folks want training, they need to go to LFI, Front Sight, Gunsite or T. Ranch.   BTW, they say more than once in the rule book, that if you would not carry it on the street, you can't use it.  Well, what they allow doesn't begin to touch what is really carried on the street, so that arguement doesn't carry a lot of weight.

[Mark Perez]

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Quote: from tightloop on 11:10 am on July 24, 2002

..........

That was the thing I enjoyed about IPSC, if it was not in the rules and not clearly defined in the stage description you could use it.  I am like Bill, if you can out think the stage designer, and it benefits you, you should be allowed to use it.

This is a game not serious pistol training. ...

---

Tightloop,

First , you are right about specifying mag capacity.Only thing the rules say.."..maximum number of rounds that may be loaded in a magazine is 8".

But I think you are approaching FTDR territory with the above quote.See comp rules #2 ,page 30.

IDPA was promoted in the press at the time to be "serious training" while the BoD intention was another game using common ,off_the_shelf equiptment.

There was naturally a loss in the translation ,somewhere.

There are some shooters who try idpa after a heavy background in ipsc who just have a hell of a time with stage designs and not having the freedom to run a stage as they wish. The answer to this dilemna is to do it exactly like you want to - just be prepared to accept any procedurals for deviating from the stage requirements or using 'illegal' relaods for example.

IDPA vs. IPSC are 2 entirely different animals when it comes down to shootin' games.The only resemblance is the each require a firearm.

You don't expect to play football using baseball rules do you ?? Same thing here .Give IDPA a chance - I think you'll come around to see it for what it is and that is more trigger time.